Effect of carbon core wires?

aborgman

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Mar 30, 2007
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So last year I was given a free 195x Johnson JW-10 Seahorse that wasn't running, and hadn't been run in probably 10 years.

Last spring the coils were replaced, timing set, carb rebuilt, etc., etc.

It would start (with difficulty) , but wouldn't run correctly. After much consternation and help from folks here (and about 5 carb rebuilds) the culprit was unearthed - a small metal flake in the bottom of the float bowl that was covering the inlet leading up to the idle circuit. How it survived being sprayed with carb cleaner, soaked in carb cleaner, and being blown with compressed air I still do not know.

So it was running and starting easily and reliably. Then it stranded me. Running fine out on the lake, fishing... suddenly it won't start. Take it home, tear it apart - plug wires routed incorrectly (and too short) pulled plug wire out of coil. Go to auto store, get some plug wires, reroute - it runs fine. Starts right up.

A month or so (and three fishing trips later) with no problems - and then it strands me in almost exactly the same manner. Having started the motor 20 times already that day, it just refuses to start. Not even a sneeze. After paddling home, I pulled the motor off and set it aside.

It sat all winter, and I'm just getting to it.

Tried starting it after priming with a little gas in the carb throat - nothing.

Tried starting it after priming with a little gas in the carb throat, spinning it with my drill - nothing.

Threw my inline spark tester on and spun with drill - spark, but looked real weak.

Pulled plugs - plugs looked pretty good. I'd call them carbon fouled if they were coming out of a four-stroke, but they don't seem bad for a two stroke.

Pulled the flywheel and checked/reset timing - one cylinder was a tiny bit off. Spun it with drill - still nothing.

Checked spark again - now not getting any (or so weak as to be invisible) spark.

Pulled coils - coils have continuity, and look good.

...at this point I notice that I stupidly when replacing the plug wires replaced them with carbon core auto wires.

Would this cause a weak spark, which leads to easy fouling, and an inability to fire on even slightly fouled plugs? Run for a while until enough fouling builds up (and even though it isn't much) won't let it fire?
 

wavrider

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
543
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

Points, condensor, if it ran before with the carbon wires it should run now,
I believe that solid wires are recommended.

I would try cleaning the points and ohm out the condensor.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

The engine ignition system was not designed around resistor plug wires so it's no wonder it had spark issues. The correct wires should solve the problem. If the engine is carboned up, I suggest you also do a decarbon it with SeaFoam. The procedure is documented in detail in several posts. Do a search.
 

tashasdaddy

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Messages
51,019
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

Decarb, take a can of seafoam put 3/4 of it in the gas tank, with only 1 gallon of premixed gas. put the rest in a spray bottle. start the engine, and let it come up to temperature. then remove plugs, and them some real good shot of seafoam into the cylinders, replace plugs, let sit 15 minutes. restart, and spray the rest of the seafoam into the carbs, so the the motor almost stalls, wait and repeat until the seafoam is gone.then take for a wide open spin. then put in new plugs, ad premixed gas to the tank, and take it for a wide open throttle spin. it is going to smoke like a house on fire, during this process.

afterwards compression.recheck
 

aborgman

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Mar 30, 2007
Messages
210
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

Points, condensor, if it ran before with the carbon wires it should run now,
I believe that solid wires are recommended.

My thought is that a weak spark was enough to fire on clean plugs - but as the plugs got a little carboned up it reached a point where it could no longer generate enough power to fire.

I would try cleaning the points and ohm out the condensor.

Condenser testing with a meter will only tell if it is shorted or not... any idea what the actual capacity in farads is of the capacitor? I can drag a meter home with me that will measure it...
 

R.Johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
4,446
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

First, just replace the plug wires' with the proper wire cored plug wires', and see what you get.
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,226
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

old # 510173 condenser was .2mfd. Superceded by 580321, .3mfd

Get rid of those resistance wires.
 

SV1000

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
75
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

Are spark plug wire normally replaceable without replacing the coil?
 

aborgman

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Mar 30, 2007
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210
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

First, just replace the plug wires' with the proper wire cored plug wires', and see what you get.

Testing the condenser I can do by just bringing a meter home with me - replacing the plug wires means finding/buying them... and so far three different auto parts stores were completely lacking. My next place to try is tractor supply company...
 

R.Johnson

Rear Admiral
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Sep 24, 2003
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4,446
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

I would think most any auto store would have plug wire in a bulk roll, if not, try a lawn, or garden store that does repair work.
 

aborgman

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Messages
210
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

I would think most any auto store would have plug wire in a bulk roll

Not only do they not have plug wire in bulk, they don't have anything other than carbon core sets.

Typical conversation:

Me: "I'm looking for some spark plug wire"
Them: "Year, make and model?"
Me: "It isn't for a car"
Them: "If I can't look it up on the computer, I don't know what we have"


if not, try a lawn, or garden store that does repair work.

Yeah, I'm thinking the tractor place will have something.
 

wavrider

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
543
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

Me: "I'm looking for some spark plug wire"
Them: "Year, make and model?"
Me: "It isn't for a car"
Them: "If I can't look it up on the computer, I don't know what we have"


So true, try Napa
 

wbeaton

Commander
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
2,332
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

Go to a small engine shop or buy the wire on-line. TSC sells a universal fit solid core wire with boot (set of 4) for tractors that will work, but are very ridgid and don't flex much. This is a problem on tiller throttle motors, but it might not be bad on the 3 hp. However, the boots also suck. I'd only use them as a last resort.
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,226
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

Around here the mower shops give you the same treatment: What kind of mower? Model #? and so on. Totally useless.

If you are in or near a rural area, your best bet is a parts store that caters to farmers. They use wire wire on their old tractors and trucks.
 

Willyclay

Captain
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
3,264
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

Besides not knowing anything except what the computer says, a lot of the younger people working at auto parts stores do not understand what "solid core wire" means. Try asking for Packard 440 bulk wire. Good luck!
 

R.Johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
4,446
Re: Effect of carbon core wires?

willyclay: Ask for Packard 440, surely you jest?
 
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