electrical alarm for water in fuel?

E

edwardh1

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with all the concern about the "badness" of having water in fuel- is there any type electrical alarm, either at the fuel tank or at the water separating fuel filter that would warn of water in the fuel, and the water seperator being overloaded with water?

seems in outboards people would only use the kind with a visible canister- yet many come from the dealers with the screw on/off canister
 
109jb

109jb

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

yeah there is an alarm of sorts. When the water separator gets too full it stops flowing anything and the engine quits.
 
E

edwardh1

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

yeah but many new boats come with a radio with sat reception that you cant hear at WOT, and that Mr salt destroys in a few years, but no water sensor.
 
dingbat

dingbat

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

You have to remember, your talking about the same dealers/builders who think that bilge pumps are options as well? :D:D

Anything to save a couple of bucks.
 
E

edwardh1

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

very good point, since the pump should have a float switch AND an alarm or light to tell you its on
 
Beefer

Beefer

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

If your tank is (easy and readily) accessible, you can use a product called Kolor Kut to check for water in the fuel. It's a brown paste that turns yellow or red in the presence of water. You smear a bit on a sounding stick (or just about anything that'll fit), wait a second, pull it out, and see. It's a long stretch from an alarm, but if you do it after long periods of non-use, or even before every outing, you won't have to worry about it. Just a thought. (Oh, and Kolor Kut is available I hear at NAPA.)
 
Beefer

Beefer

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109jb

109jb

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

Beefer said:
I would think you'd be able to rig this one to an audible and visual alarm. And at the price, it may be something we should all look into.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is what I was thinking too. I did a little checking and haven't been able to figure out exactly what type of unit the sensor is, but I'm guessing it is a capacitance type sensor. I guess if we had some electrical guru out there that could design a buzzer circuit to work with the sensor then we would have what the original poster is looking for.

I have a capacitance sensor I built for my basement in case it floods but I just found a circuit online and built from that. Problem is that one uses the difference in capacitance between air and water. For a fuel water sensor you would need to compar the capacitance difference between fuel and water which is not as great. I would think that the one in my basement would probably go off if gas were between the probes. I know enough about electronics to some stuff, but this one is beyond me. Anyone else?

Of course this assumes the probe in the fuel filter bowl in the link is actually a capacitance type probe.
 
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jeeperman

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

I use a water seperating fuel funnel when filling up at the gas station.
It might not screen out the water suspended by the 10% ethanol in the gas.

But it will seperate the water out if the pumps are pumping water and junk from the bottom of the station tanks.
 
Stachi

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

109jb said:
Yeah, that is what I was thinking too. I did a little checking and haven't been able to figure out exactly what type of unit the sensor is, but I'm guessing it is a capacitance type sensor. I guess if we had some electrical guru out there that could design a buzzer circuit to work with the sensor then we would have what the original poster is looking for.

I have a capacitance sensor I built for my basement in case it floods but I just found a circuit online and built from that. Problem is that one uses the difference in capacitance between air and water. For a fuel water sensor you would need to compar the capacitance difference between fuel and water which is not as great. I would think that the one in my basement would probably go off if gas were between the probes. I know enough about electronics to some stuff, but this one is beyond me. Anyone else?

Of course this assumes the probe in the fuel filter bowl in the link is actually a capacitance type probe.
Click to expand...

is there a way to dip the probes of your basement unit into gasoline and see what happens ?
 
109jb

109jb

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

Stachi said:
is there a way to dip the probes of your basement unit into gasoline and see what happens ?
Click to expand...

Well I can't for the one I built unless I want to pour gas into my sump pit, but I also have a little battery unit like the one in the picture below. Haven't used this one since I built the other one but I put a battery in it and tested it with water and it still worked. I then put a little gas into a shallow tray and tested the store bought unit and it did not go off. Looks like this might be what the original poster is looking for. As an example of how sensitive this unit is, if you just hold your finger across the probes (see the second picture), the conductivity of your finger will make it go off.
 

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Stachi

Stachi

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

109jb said:
Well I can't for the one I built unless I want to pour gas into my sump pit, but I also have a little battery unit like the one in the picture below. Haven't used this one since I built the other one but I put a battery in it and tested it with water and it still worked. I then put a little gas into a shallow tray and tested the store bought unit and it did not go off. Looks like this might be what the original poster is looking for. As an example of how sensitive this unit is, if you just hold your finger across the probes (see the second picture), the conductivity of your finger will make it go off.
Click to expand...

excellent....
 
Alpheus

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

Capacitance is how fuel is measured in aircraft. There is no such sensor. If there was aircraft would be using them. Many small aircraft go down each year because of water in the fuel. The only way to check is by sumping the tanks and doing a visual inspection. Which is what every pilot does in a pre-flight check...

capacitance is the ability of a body to hold an electrical charge. Capacitance is also a measure of the amount of electrical energy stored (or separated) for a given electric potential.

The only way to tell the difference electrically in water and fuel is by the resistance OHMS through the different elements. it would almost be impossible. This would be sending an electrical current through them and thats not happening. Also pure water in not a conductor of electricity, its the minerals in the water that conduct. So water with different minerals dissolved in it would have different resistances. Its just to much of a variable...
 
Alpheus

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

Now that I get to thinking about this is to have a simple fuel water separator like a glass sight glass where the water is stored in the bottom of the container. Have a simple series circuit that uses the water to complete the circuit and activate a light or buzzer.

It wouldn't let you know if there is water sitting in your tank but it would let you know that maintenance is needed...
 
Beefer

Beefer

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

Alpheus said:
Capacitance is how fuel is measured in aircraft. There is no such sensor. If there was aircraft would be using them. Many small aircraft go down each year because of water in the fuel. The only way to check is by sumping the tanks and doing a visual inspection. Which is what every pilot does in a pre-flight check...

capacitance is the ability of a body to hold an electrical charge. Capacitance is also a measure of the amount of electrical energy stored (or separated) for a given electric potential.

The only way to tell the difference electrically in water and fuel is by the resistance OHMS through the different elements. it would almost be impossible. This would be sending an electrical current through them and thats not happening. Also pure water in not a conductor of electricity, its the minerals in the water that conduct. So water with different minerals dissolved in it would have different resistances. Its just to much of a variable...
Click to expand...

Alpheus said:
Now that I get to thinking about this is to have a simple fuel water separator like a glass sight glass where the water is stored in the bottom of the container. Have a simple series circuit that uses the water to complete the circuit and activate a light or buzzer.

It wouldn't let you know if there is water sitting in your tank but it would let you know that maintenance is needed...
Click to expand...

How does this work then?

MAR-REPLB-OW-L2-2T.jpg


http://www.simyamaha.com/Racor_Fuel_Filter_Replacement_Bowl_p/mar-replb-ow-l2.htm

Isn't that what you're kind of talking about in your second post?
 
Alpheus

Alpheus

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

Yep thats what I was talking about. I was just thinking out loud. Its a simple concept...
 
109jb

109jb

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

So what you are saying is that you didn't read my posts about how it worked with a $12 water leak detector that I got from Home Depot or about how Yamaha is already doing it. There is definitely a difference in capacitance between water and gasoline and making a sensor that operates a buzzer rather than a capacitance fuel gauge is what we are talking about.
 
Fireman431

Fireman431

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Re: electrical alarm for water in fuel?

What about something as simple as a sight gauge on the outside of the tank, where you could see the water/gas separate?

If not...there's your million dollar idea. Develop it and when you're rich, we can all say "We blogged with you when you were nobody".
 
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