Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

[neumanns]

Ok heres the deal...I have a string of outlets that have become intermitent. They tripped and reset on there own twice last night. then after preforming good all day they tripped several times this evening. if they go out in about 3-10 minutes they will come back on their own.The braker is not thrown but manually resetting does restore power. after several episodes tonight I have not had any problems in the past 2 hours. The outlets are not GFI and the house is about twelve years old. There is nothing on the system that differs between day or night as far as usage or load and it is definatly not overloaded. I am at a loss on this one but before I just replace the breaker and check connections in the box Is there a posability that it is a outlet or appliance causing it and if so what in the ****ens could cause loss of power on the whole run but not a thrown breaker??? Any Ideas here fellows.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Replace the breaker. That would be my guess. Just had the same thing happen with my heatpump breaker. It wasn't auto-intermittant but like yours, but the breaker did not assume it's tripped position when the power went out. After cycling the breaker the power came back on. After several episodes, I could not flip the breaker to the off position anymore. In attempting to remove the breaker it just fell apart.

 

[neumanns]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Thats my guess Boom, but it still baffles me. To complicate things further upon going upstairs to bed I turned the hall light on and it was like a brown out...about 30% britness so that brings two questions imediatly; is it the bulb and is it on the same run as other problem. No it's not the bulb the cieling fan is also about 30% brite so after further investigation I do determine it is a diffrent braker run. Now I'm thinking it may be time to call a profesional in unless someone can give me a plausable explanation.<br /><br />I did call MPL to have the feed to the house checked to eliminate the possability of one side on the feeder line being bad as this service is of no cost to me. however I need to now consider the possabilty of a whole family of gremlins as I can discern no possability of the two being related.

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

I think that possibly you have a bad connection or two in your breaker panel. If you are comfortable opening a panel I would suggest the following.(safety stuff first) Use an insulated screwdriver, stand on a dry board, keep one hand in your pocket. Check the tightness of the load wires on the breakers. Look for any signs of heat on the main lugs, if you are experienced or feeling daring, check the tightness of the main lugs (we're talking serious unlimited current here folks). If that all checks out, it is time to get a volt meter and wait for your next "brown out" and follow the voltage. Remember, half of you house is on one "leg" of the incomming power, and the other half on the other.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

neumanns, it is possible that you have a loose connection in a junction box. It could be a wire nut or in some cases where the outlets are daisy chained together in the outlet itself. Some of the newer outlets that the wire is just pushed in is great for this. I still like to screw down my wires on the outlets instead of the push in type. When the piece of metal that applies tension on the wire heats up, it looses its tension causing a loose intermittent condition.<br /><br />I could be wrong, but it sounds like this is the problem that your having. Good luck....

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

neumans<br />Do you have overhead or underground service? It's possible one of the main connections either at the mast head or at some point up to the main breaker in your panel is loose. You may be losing power on one of your hot legs (there are 2). <br /><br />Where you at in MN? I know several good electricians out of the Little Falls, Baxter, St Cloud or Aitkin area if you don't feel comfortable doing this yourself.

 

[rwise]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

neumanns<br />I have found that where the electric co. splices the wire outside near the wether head or at the other end can cause this problem. The electric co will need to fix if this is the case. Also the home I have now, all of the wireing at the transformer was loose and burned, same symptoms. If you can be there watch to see that the lineman checks all of these connections. they may tell you that there splices never fail, riiiiight!

 

[Pascal]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Had similar problems in a mobile home we owned a long time ago. Turned out that it was wired with aluminum wires. Yours is probably too new for that type of wiring.<br /><br />Many fires were caused by the loosening of the connections with aluminum wires. <br /><br />You could check the junction boxes, outlets and switches with a IR temp gun to see if there is heat buildup from a loose connection.<br /><br />JD

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Gotta agree with SS on this one. If your 220 appliances are working, then you're ok coming in. More than likely, if you find the first receptical on the line that you're having problems with, that'll be the culprit. Did inside wiring with my Dad for over 20 years, and whenever we came across one of those outlets with the wire pushed in vs. using a loop under a screw, we'd always change it out and loop the screw. Just didn't trust a connection we couldn't see or check.<br />Good luck, and remember, electricity never sleeps. It isn't dead until it's deenergized and grounded.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

neumanns, If your appliances that uses 220/240 volt is working okay, then the problem IS NOT your power coming in. If it is a single pole breaker that is giving you the problem, then it is that circuit.<br /><br />If you had problems of browing out, lights dimming down when something powers up, then it could be a power supply problem. But I seriously think it is a faulty outlet giving you a problem. I have found this often since the new style outlets that have the place to just push the wires in. <br /><br />Best thing to do is trip or shut the breaker off, then pull out each receptical out that is affected. Sometimes you can put you finger on the outlet. If it feels warm or hot, there is your problem. With the wire arcing inside the outlet, your power will come and go. Once it does it so often, it will eventually burn out to the point it won't come back on.<br /><br />Edit: Have you hung any pictures? done any remodeling? I ask because sometimes a nail driven into a wall can pierce your wiring and cause the same problem. Nothing more scary than getting a voltage reading off a drywall screw! It especially hurts when your putting the mud over it....ouch.....

 

[springhead]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

hey neumens, i am an electrician and work for the local light and power co here in RI., call the electric co.and report brown out or lights dimming in your house, they will come over and check all the connections at the pole to your house drop and the meter box, it sounds to me its a bad or loose neutral wire, if the problem isnt outside then you need to check connections in your panel and at the outlets and switchs, good luck

 

[neumanns]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Got up this morning to no water and still brown out conditions on several bulbs but not all. MPL showed up promptly at 8 am pulled the meter and one side was showing 118 and the other nothing. After multiple continuity tests and all other tests possable we rechecked at the meter an were showing 118 and 96 volts with good continuity on neutral wire. So at this point we tracked the wire to where the machine was showing the break and dug it up, the wire looked perfect so we decided to make two seperate digs cut the wire and test it in three sections with the intention of splicing over the bad section to avoid a complete repull of wire since the ground already has frost in it. Much to our dismay all three sections showed fualt of some sort under load testing. SO to our (mine and MPL) surprise it appeared the wire had went bad over the whole length. Just exactly how or why remains a mistery. So we trenched in new wire from the pole to the house and got reading of 123v on both wires at 3:30 pm this afternoon. and as a final test of our luck it was time to throw the breaker on the well pump and thank goodness it worked. I had worried all day that I had burned my submersable pump up and was not looking forward to that cost. I guess all is well that ends well.<br /><br />SS... the 240 are mostly on the side that was good and the reason they did not fail is both sides of the 120 combining to make 240came off the same leg in the breaker box.<br /><br />Sangerwalker I am 20 minutes north of baxter in Jenkins Mn but thankfully my problem is now solved and am no longer looking for an electrician. Thanks though, seems like your pretty familiar with the area up here.<br /><br />Thank you ALL for your input!

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Glad it all worked out for you.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Take a little time and ohm the motor to see if any damage was done to the motor due to low voltage. High amps equals heat and heat breaks down the motor. Probably no damage but takes little effor to check. Information on the motor is available from franklin electric, (thats the motor on your unit if less than 10yrs old.)<br /><br />If you can't find it on their web site just post the model of your pump and I will look it up for you. If motor is damaged you can go back to power company with a claim for replacement. This situation is notorious in florida where the power is frequently poor and cause appliances of all sorts to fail prematurely.

 

[neumanns]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Pointer94, the well pump would be 13 yrs old and I have no Idea whats down there or the process involved. I have never pulled a submersable from a cased well. Do I just grab it by the cord and pull it up? If thats all there is to it or somthing simular I would love to persue it further but I am definatly outside any personal knowledge of mine.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Originally posted by neumanns:<br /> Got up this morning to no water and still brown out conditions on several bulbs but not all. MPL showed up promptly at 8 am pulled the meter and one side was showing 118 and the other nothing. After multiple continuity tests and all other tests possable we rechecked at the meter an were showing 118 and 96 volts with good continuity on neutral wire. So at this point we tracked the wire to where the machine was showing the break and dug it up, the wire looked perfect so we decided to make two seperate digs cut the wire and test it in three sections with the intention of splicing over the bad section to avoid a complete repull of wire since the ground already has frost in it. Much to our dismay all three sections showed fualt of some sort under load testing. SO to our (mine and MPL) surprise it appeared the wire had went bad over the whole length. Just exactly how or why remains a mistery. So we trenched in new wire from the pole to the house and got reading of 123v on both wires at 3:30 pm this afternoon. and as a final test of our luck it was time to throw the breaker on the well pump and thank goodness it worked. I had worried all day that I had burned my submersable pump up and was not looking forward to that cost. I guess all is well that ends well.<br /><br />SS... the 240 are mostly on the side that was good and the reason they did not fail is both sides of the 120 combining to make 240came off the same leg in the breaker box.<br /><br />Sangerwalker I am 20 minutes north of baxter in Jenkins Mn but thankfully my problem is now solved and am no longer looking for an electrician. Thanks though, seems like your pretty familiar with the area up here.<br /><br />Thank you ALL for your input!

Hmmmm, are you saying you were getting 240VAC from one phase at the panel?? <br />Glad you got things sorted out before the weather got too bad.

 

[neumanns]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

Absolutly not...Just a major brain fart there, a condition of wich I ocasionally suffer from ...woops There was apperantly sufficient draw for them to still function at reduced capacity when needed proabably due to the intermitant nature of the problem. Sorry X and SS

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

neumanns,<br /><br />you can disconnect the power and apply an ohm meter to the lines. In this way you can measure resistance within the motor. A megameter is best. No pulling required.<br /><br />If you are so motivated you can pull the pump. Not real hard and you don't live in Colorado where some wells are hundreds to a thousand feet deep. Those pumps are heavy!!! Minnesota is a 1/2 and 3/4 quarter hp market primarily. Exceptions always exist though. You pop the well cap and look inside. You will see what is called a pitless adaptor. The pipe is connected to this. Lift this up and the pump in connected to the pipe. Lift it out. Usually 2-3 strong men can do it without equipment but you could build a tripod out of wood to act as a support as you pull it out and need a break. Lift by the pipe only, the wire is not strong enough. Pump is threaded on the end with a 1.25 npt fitting. Just unscrew. Pump life depends on a couple of things. Power quality, number of cycles (on-off) and the size of your pressure tank (reduces # of cycles), water quality, and correct sizing of the pump at time of installation. Most pumps will last a minimum of 250,000 cycles. Unlike engines (1) 60 second cycle is equal to (1) 3hr cycle from a pumps perspective. <br /><br />13 years on a residential pump on a year round residence is not bad. You may being living on good looks and borrowed time at this point though. I would say this, if it megs out well you are probably in good shape for a couple more years!<br /><br />I work with this stuff for a living. Bester stated I work with this stuff to support my boating habit.

 

[rwise]

Re: Electrical Gremlin's eventually lose battle today!

At least its fixed, happy showering!