Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

[FishinInMizzou]

Everyone helped figure out the lights on my 87' Suntracker. Next up is the tilt trim. If I arc across on the motor itself, the motor will raise and lower. There is a toggle on the console that says up/down for the tilt trim. Coming out of the tilt/trim motor are a bunch of wires. Under the console is spaghetti insanity. Is there one wire for the tilt and one for the trim that I should be looking for? When I bought it, it would go down, but not up. Now it does nothing. Suggestions?

 

[ddrieck]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

Sounds like you have a solinoid problem. Most tilt trim motors will have two solinods, one for up and one for down. Might want to replace them both as they are fairly inexpensive.

 

[FishinInMizzou]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

It does have two solinoids - I can short across one and it goes up - I short across the other and it goes down - it also has a slow leak somewhere - it won't stay up - but that is a question for a different post. Right now I want to get the juice at the switch to ensure that the electronics are working. Once I get this done, I only have two more things to get wired - right now I am trying to make sure that this toggle is supposed to have a hot in the middle, a wire on one size for tilt and on the other side for trim. Once I know the switch is working, I will attack the issues of the tilt/trim itself.

 

[EGlideRider]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

Actually those are relays and not solenoids. And because the engine is an 87, I would go ahead and replace them anyway.

There are no two wires on the motor that you can 'arc' across to make it turn so maybe you can elaborate on that test. And most tilt/trim relays are encapsuated and the wires are coated so you can't jump across them either. So maybe a furthur explanation of that test might be in order.

But to answer your original question, yes the center of the toggle switch should be hot. Each of the other two wires should go to the one side of the relay coils and the other side of the coils should go to common.

If you get the relay coils energizing and you replace the relays, your tilt/trim will probably work. But if not report back here with your actions and test results.

Good luck

 

[FishinInMizzou]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

My lack of knowledge shows again. Mounted on the right pontoon, by the batteries is the "tilt/trim" unit. There are two identical units, side by side. On the front of these there are three bolts with wires attached to each bolt - two bolts above the third forming a triangle. If I put a screwdriver across the top two bolts on the unit on the left, the motor raises - if the I repeat the exercise with the "unit" on the right, it lowers. If this is not the tilt/trim, what is it - what exactly am I working with? I am going to work on the boat this week after work if it doesn't rain - I will let you know if I get it working from the console.

 

[EGlideRider]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

My lack of knowledge shows again. Mounted on the right pontoon, by the batteries is the "tilt/trim" unit. There are two identical units, side by side. On the front of these there are three bolts with wires attached to each bolt - two bolts above the third forming a triangle. If I put a screwdriver across the top two bolts on the unit on the left, the motor raises - if the I repeat the exercise with the "unit" on the right, it lowers. If this is not the tilt/trim, what is it - what exactly am I working with? I am going to work on the boat this week after work if it doesn't rain - I will let you know if I get it working from the console.

Is this an add-on tilt/trim unit???? I assumed that the relays were in the engine cowling.. While I am not a tilt/trim expert, I have worked on quite a few during my many years of boating. I did have a boat with tilt and trim in the 80's that had the motor, relays, and hydraulic resovoir under a rear seat. So maybe this is what you have.

All of the trim motors I have ever seen had only two wires. The relays worked to reverse the polarity of these two wires. With this senerio, there are no two wires on any one controlling relays that can be shorted to make the motor run. However, there are other DC motors that have two leads. One of them is a forward, one is a reverse and the case acts as a common or it may have a third wire as a common. From your description so far, you must have one of these motors because you can short the contacts of the controlling relays to make the motor run.


I am a retired electrical engineer, so I can and will step you through this problem.

So answer the following questions to help solve this problem:
1. Is the motor near these two relays or is it near the transom?
2. How many wires are on the motor?
3. Can you determine where these wires go and if so, where?
4. Does the bolt that you did NOT short have a smaller wire than the two that you shorted?
5. Does the wire on this same bolt run towards the console?

 

[FishinInMizzou]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

EGlide - thank you for the offer of assistance. I will try and get some pics uploaded to show you what I am working with. I will get some answers to your questions when it is daylightoutside.

Ken

 

[FishinInMizzou]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

I guess the tilt trim with the three bolts was on my cousins boat - mine, as you can see, has four bolts straight across. With the connector between the two center bolts, I assume they are the hot. When I short across the two on the right it goes up - the two on the left make it go down. At the bottom center is a connector. The previous owner said that when it comes disconnected it doesn't work. I assume that may be the power that goes to the console - so what do you think?

 

[EGlideRider]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

Ok, now things are much more clear.

The first thing I would do is replace those two relays. If they aren't bad now, they will be soon. And that may just fix your problem.

There are two smaller wires on each of the relays. One is common and one is the relay coil wire going to your switch. So check for voltage at the center of the switch. Then you should have voltage on each of the other switch connectors as you press the switch in each direction. If you have voltage there then check it at the relay.

My guess is that either you have no voltage to the switch, or the switch is defective. It is unlikely that both relays are bad or that both control wires to the relay are broken.

 

[FishinInMizzou]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

Success!! I lost the ability to short across the relays which meant I couldn't troubleshoot the switch. I got the manual out, that I bought from www.iboats.com and found the method for checking the motor on the tilt/trim - the motor worked. When I put it back together, the ability to short across the relays worked again.

I then went to the console - found the correct wires for up/down. When the hot was connected to the up/down wires, the tilt/trim worked. I then found out the switch was bad - swapped that out and I now have tilt/trim at the console. Next up is figure out why the motor will go up, but gradually lowers back to the down position. Thanks everyone for the input on this - without I would have been up a creek - my brother said I should take it to the shop to get fixed - I asked him what would I learn doing that???????

 

[EGlideRider]

Re: Electrical - Tilt/Trim function

Well, you sorta went 'around the world' to solve the problem but the important thing is you have trim and tilt.

The reason the motor is slowing going down is bad seals in the hydraulic cylinders. Replacing the seals and bleeding the lines afterwards can get a little tricky if you no hydraulic experience. If you can't do it, you may want to take it to the shop or see if any of your friends can repair it using the repair manual you purchased.

If you want to tackle it and have little or no experience, post back here and I and others will step you through the repair.