EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

drackley

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Feb 6, 2003
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I've posted a few topics on getting this overhauled Evinrude 115 tubojet running and today succedded after removing a restriction in the primer circuit and double checking every last orifice in the carbs. After getting it running I put the water to it, and hit the starter. It rotated a few degrees and THUD. I've been a mechanic long enough to know what had happened. I pulled the plugs and dissconnected the hose and cranked the water out. I put the plugs back in and ran it for about 15 seconds hoping to force the water out. My two questions are.<br />1. What can I do to help prevent what inevitably happens when water is in the crankcase, and<br />2. assuming that I didn't do anything wrong on assembly, (I'm damn anal when it comes to making sure it's right so it doesn't have to be done again) where would the water come from? The previous owner had crap for brains (melted a piston, ignition key was messed up and primer was on full time with the key on, middle bearing pin to keep race from spinning smashed into block and race cracked, bubble exhaust manifold melted through probably from running with no water) you get the picture. This turbo jet has a large can that is the muffler if this has a problem could the water be coming back in through the exhaust? The important thing right now is that I dont seize the new powerhead, so any advise on dammage control would be greatly appreciated. Dirk
 

sparkroost

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

I have no idea what engine you have.. but... the water can come from the head gasket or the water jackets that cool the exhaust. It bleeds into the exhaust ports and into the cylinder. Head gaskets will leak into the cylinder itself. Was there any particular hole that was drenched? If both lower cyls. I suspect the exhaust gasket on the back of the powerhead.
 

drackley

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

Lower most cylinder (#4?) was where I drained the water from first. Given that, I suspect water coming in from exhaust system rather than heads. Dirk
 

sparkroost

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

What did you use to seal the gaskets? Also, what did you do in preparation to the gasket surfaces? Did you figure 8 the heads and any other surfaces you could fit on a sheet of sandpaper?
 

drackley

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

Both the block and the heads were surfaced by a machine shop. Head gaskets do not use sealer as they are already coated. Dirk
 

sparkroost

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

Just another thought. Maybe you have time... The lower barring carrier is sealed at the shaft seal and the o-ring seals. Water is heavier than oil. That oil goes to the bottom of the motor and sits. All that needs to happen is slight rust to cause virbration. That vibration will kill those bearings. Then the bearings will fling around in the cavity where the counterweight of the crank is spinning. They will get smaller and smaller until they decide to "pass a kidney stone". <br /><br />This happened to me(not cause I had a leak but because the motor sat too long inbetween runs and was not fogged(previous owner)). I ran the motor all day the first day I had gotten it. By the end of the day there was no bearing left. Killed 2 cylinders and I just finished the rebuild.<br /><br />Sounds like you are going to have to pull the powerhead.
 

sparkroost

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

What did you use on the sealing surfaces(heads:water jackets, exhaust backplate, top plate, port covers, case half, intake, reeds)?
 

Walker

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

I suspect a torn base gasket. Its easy to do when installing the powerhead.
 

sparkroost

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

How would water get in the engine from a torn base gasket?
 

Walker

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

It would cross over from the water intake cavity to the exhaust cavity.
 

sparkroost

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

I didn't think of that...I guess if the engine was submerged to the adapter plate this could happen. Could it happen if on the water hose? Wouldn't the water fall downwards with gravity and exhaust pressure?
 

drackley

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

Thanks walker. That theory holds water ;) . Given how easy it is to pull the powerhead and platform on this I'll do so and put the hose to it again. Dirk
 

Walker

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

Drackley, after reading your first post more carefully, I'd really be concerned about the block itself. If it got hot enough to melt the exhaust bubble then there's a concern about warpage and/or cracks.
 

drackley

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

I agree. All surfaces were machined except the exhaust. I think the best shot is pull the engine and put the water to it while on the hoist. I can also pull and check the lower bearing for water. Dirk
 

sparkroost

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

What gasket did you get for the powerhead? Was it the thick one, or the paper one?<br /><br />Did you use GSC on ALL gaskets that pertain to water? Did you re-torque the bolts after you heated the engine? You will be surprised how much they will re-torque! Those paper gaskets will smash if you put too much force on them and literally squeeze out, so you have to torque, heat and re-torque.<br /><br />I think if the head gasket was leaking internally, your compression test would show the leak.<br /><br />Is it possible to get the exhaust backplate off without removing the powerhead? You should be able to see a torn gasket. Something else I do to check surfaces is to mate them in there place with no gasket and try and rock it to see if it's uneven.<br /><br />Walker made a very good point about re-reading your post. His thoughts were problems associated with heat. cracked block, warped surfaces are all possibilities.<br /><br />Why did the center bearing spin? I am even wondering how it could have spun. Only thing I can think of is that maybe it was assembled before and the person didn't get the bearing to seat properly on the pin. Having said that, what else would that have caused to go bad? Did you trash any bearings? Did you have excesive end play in the crankshaft before removal? Did you have any rods that were black at either end? Any bearings that were black? Did your machine shop person say the heads were not flat? Was the block uneven as well? Since the bearing was not seated, or spun, what did the seal ring surfaces look like on the block? Was your lower bearing housing wallowed out at all(did the bearing just fall into the housing, or was it a slip fit?<br /><br />After I finished my motor a week ago I was so discouraged because I had the right bank head leak water externally. I tried to re-toque. I stripped 1 head bolt(I missed looking at the thread condition, was already fubar). Had to drill and tap. Fixed that. Next thing I did was strip the #2 cylinder spark plug. That hole was already wallowed out and couldn't hold enough to compress the washer on the plug. Off to the store I went to get a heli-coil kit. Got it running after that.... ran great for about 5 minutes.Then engine was missing on 2 cylinders intermittantly and sheared the flywheel key. Found pinched sensor wire at the place where it clamps to the timer base. Then... got it running, reached around to feel the temp on the head and got the shi* knocked outta me.. coils were cracked and sometimes arcing to block. replaced all coils. Now it's running(knock on wood) like a champ and I am the proud father of a re-born engine.<br /><br />I felt about 2" tall that weekend and was dissapointed in myself for not covering all the bases. I, like you, try to be VERY(as you put it) anal as to how I do things. Even though I had all these parts laying around for months I neverbothered to mess with them because I had mor important priorities with other parts that had to be assembled first.<br /><br />Sorry I am rambling on, but my point is this... we are all human(as far as I know)! You will get this thing running!<br /><br />If you can pull the exhaust backplate you might be able to see where the gasket failed, if it failed. Then you would just need to pull the lower bearing housing to remove the water and re-assemble.<br /><br />If you are near me I would be happy to come to your house and help. I am in south Texas, Houston.
 

drackley

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

I may have found the problem. The turbojet has a platform that the Evinrude 115 sits on then that is mounted to the jet pump. The muffler is a large two chamber can at the back of the assembly. Water goes in at the bottom of the platform in what is a double chamber (cools that length of exhaust chamber) and up into the block. The "can" is also cooled to the outer chamber with the return waer befor exiting the boat both by a hose on top of the can, and by the outer chamber of the can exiting with the exhaust (this is the best I can tell without a water circuit schematic GAWD i WISH I HAD ONE RIGHT NOW!) The gasket for the muffler (can) to the platform had some sort of non standard sealer on it, and I'm 99% sure that it was blown between the inner chamber (exhaust exit into the can) and the outer (exhaust exit with water out the boat. This would mean that the water filling the can just spilled over into the exhaust chamber comming from the powerhead. This is just another in a long list of stupid things this yoyo did.<br />Sparkroost. The bearing did not spin the dip@#$t didn't have the bearing race lined up and smashed the pin into the block. I can understand the head bolt. 20 of them and the last one stripped on me :p . How long after the rebuild should I re-torque the heads? Dirk
 

sparkroost

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Re: EMRGENCY HELP NEEDED!!

I can't imagine how the case halves would go together without binding with the center bearing on the pin. Not to mention the load on the crankshaft.. I imagine it would have alot of radial play. Hopefully your seal ring areas are ok and your case half not tweaked.<br /><br />As for the re-torque, doesn't take much heat for things to start compressing. I have been checking mine periodically. Not just the head bolts, but the rest of the bolts in the engine, especially the exhaust plate.. Seals water in the center, not much landing area to seal as it is. That is one item I cannot take off without the powerhead being out cause I have the bubble exhaust. Just be carefull!! check bolts for the first 10-20 hours of operation. I could tell bolts were looser after 2 hours of operation.
 
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