engine chatter

[IVAZ]

Hi everyone I have a question. Not to long ago my timing gears stripped so I replaced with a new set. Right before they did break a light clicking developed that never went away. Well I screwed up when installing the timing cover because it started to leak oil from the front crank seal. When I started the engine yesterday it went from a little leak to flinging oil all over the place. The clicking turned to loud chattering even though the oil level never was allowed to get low (I only ran it for about ten minutes). The oil pressure gauge reads zero. The question is the chatter and no oil pressure due to a bad oil pump or the horrible leak?

 

[Bondo]

Re: engine chatter

Ayuh,... What are We workin' on,..??

It sounds like you have Problems Much Deeper than an oil Leak....

 

[chiefalen]

Re: engine chatter

Now it's time for yanking it and turning it over and seeing what the real deal is.

Would be nice what motor and all it is maybe you can go to the top of the forum and read the stickies and see how to post a thread.

 

[JustJason]

Re: engine chatter

I think the bigger question here is why did the timing gears strip in the first place? They are fairly strong, much stronger than a timing chain setup, and they shouldn't have stripped unless something on the cam side got hung up, or they stopped recieving oil for a period of time.
I have a feeling that the gears stripping were a byproduct of another failure.

 

[Don S]

Re: engine chatter

When I started the engine yesterday it went from a little leak to flinging oil all over the place.

When you post what engine you have, you might want to post where this leak is coming from.

 

[IVAZ]

Re: engine chatter

Sorry I left so much information out.
Its a 1978 mercruiser 165hp l6 with pre alpha drive. The leak is coming from the front crank seal.

 

[Bondo]

Re: engine chatter

Ayuh,...

I don't see things getting any Better for you with the motor In the boat,....

I think it needs to be Pulled,... Sorry....

 

[IVAZ]

Re: engine chatter

Would something else beside a bad oil pump cause zero oil pressure. The chattering is coming from the top like maybe lifters or valves. Im pretty sure the engine does need to come out because I dont think you could even change the oil pump due to the lack of room. That really sucks cause I just took it out to put the timing gears on.

 

[Bondo]

Re: engine chatter

Would something else beside a bad oil pump cause zero oil pressure.

Ayuh,...

The pump is driven off the distributer,...

Pull it,+ see if there's anything there to See...

Did you figure out Why it needed timing gears,..??

 

[IVAZ]

Re: engine chatter

No, I never figured out why it needed new gears. I Know that the fiber cam gear on cars only lasts about 150,000 miles. When the mercruiser stripped its timing teeth I just figured it was normal wear (crank gear was fine). My 1967 chevelle got a 454ci when the 250ci broke its timing teeth the same way. Do boats put less wear on their parts?

 

[Bondo]

Re: engine chatter

My 1967 chevelle got a 454ci when the 250ci broke its timing teeth the same way. Do boats put less wear on their parts?

No,.. Not really.....

I'm just tryin' to find your Problem...

The Distributer,+ Oil pump run off the cam,...
Downstream from your Old problem...


Btw,...
That ole pre-Alpha won't stand up to a 454......

 

[moparman]

Re: engine chatter

is it possible the pump locked up? I know the pump drives off the bottom of the dist via a drive shaft ,is it possible to shear the coupling between the dist and drive shaft or drive shaft and pump?That might explain the stripped gears. Just a thought. Still going to have to pull the motor though keep us posted please.

 

[Don S]

Re: engine chatter

When you replaced that cam gear, did you remove the cam and use a press to remove the old gear and install the new one, you did you use the pry and hammer method to change it with the cam still in the engine?
Since you didn't pull the pan to change the timing chain cover, I can see how you have oil leak problems.
Might want to read the blue words in my signature below.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

 

[chiefalen]

Re: engine chatter

Back to yanking the motor. The bearings might have gotten damaged with the beating.

Turn it over and see whats what.

 

[IVAZ]

Re: engine chatter

Don,
The cam and crank were pulled and had the gears installed and removed using the methods in the merc manual. A friend with the correct tools and knowledge did this for me. The installation of the oil pan and timing gear cover was done by me.
I obviously suck at that process.
When the engine was out I should have spent the time to replace the oil pump. Its always 20/20 when you look back.
Your blue signature words were actually the first thing I thought about since I also heard that expression a whole lot from my father growing up. Maybe you guys went to the same school.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: engine chatter

If the engine is spewing oil out the front when running, obviously the oil pump is working. Zero oil pressure accounts for the lifter rattling but that may be due to them not being adjusted properly as well, although that should not affect oil pressure. The process of installing the cam could have dislodged a cam bearing opening up the the oil passage internally or blocking it entirely creating the no oil pressure situation. The front oil leak is probably just a poor repair job that did not include replacement of the seal in the cam cover that would have been nicked in the process of removal and/or replacment. Speculation to be sure but that's my two cents worth!

 

[IVAZ]

Re: engine chatter

Fixed the seals and readjusted the valves saturday. That made the chatter go away. I ran the boat Sunday for about five hours with no other issues. Also replaced the oil pressure sensor with an actual gauge and pressure now reads about 40psi. Thanks for the help fellows.
I have to say that l6 is a tough little engine to put up with what I dish out to it.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: engine chatter

Glad to hear you got it fixed! From the sound of your original post it sounded like you had taken the short cut and tried removing and installing the timing cover without removing the oil pan - which CAN be done, but is certainly not the best way. But, again, it sounds like you have it solved now. Congrats and good boating!

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: engine chatter

I Know that the fiber cam gear on cars only lasts about 150,000 miles.

At an average speed of 30mph, that's 5000 hours. Even at 100% highway miles @60mph never stopping for gas, that's still 2500 hours.

somewhere around 40 hours per year is the average usage for a recreational boat. Would take somewhere around 60 years to kill those gears unless your boat was or is a charter or commercial vessel.

I'd be suspicious the cam gears were a result of a tight cam due to some sort of lube/bearing problem.
Sounds like that problem might have escalated to a failure.

 

[IVAZ]

Re: engine chatter

I?m not disputing your numbers but what kind of formula did you use to come up with those numbers. The reason I?m adamant about those gears not being very durable on cars is due to the fact that between me my uncle and dad have had several 250s that had them fail. One 1968 chevelle that my dad has had for 27 years has never had them fail. There are exceptions.