Engine swap

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timothyl

Seaman
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
Messages
62
I have a 66 glasspar seafair sedan w/ a 1966 Johnson Golden Meteor 100hp motor that is causing me fits. I considering buying a newer motor to stop my headaches, both from the motor and my family. I know this old washing tub size motor is heavy and drinks like a fish. <br /> My first question is that I am looking for advice on types/size of motor to buy for "general purpose" boating (cruising, skiing, etc..) I don't want a beast, but then again, I do have a brother with a boat that I would rather NOT have to listen to.<br /> Second, does anyone know of a website that lists motor weights so that I can compare motors I am interested in with what I currently have?<br /> My Sefair is 17.6' overall w/ an 85" beam. It weights 1050 pounds empty and is rated for a 165hp max. It currently handles most water fantastic but does seem a little stern heavy and underpowered at times.<br />Thank you in advance for any comments.
 
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bossee

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
727
Re: Engine swap

Hi,<br />I guess we are talking about outboards here...<br /><br />Do You prefer 2- or 4-stroke? Used or new?<br /><br />Maybe a 90-115 hp 2- or 4-stroke will be fine, used or new.<br /><br />Have you seen any other boats like Yours - what (newer) outboards do they have?<br /> http://www.classicglasspars.com/index.htm <br /><br />/Bo
 
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timothyl

Seaman
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
Messages
62
Re: Engine swap

Unfortunatly, its not realistic to think about a new motor. I believe the reason its a little stern heavy is that I have to carry so much fuel and its all on the stern. I am looking for side tanks as well and have added a bow tank. I have not had it on the water since because of a broken ankle (Cast off on Thursaday after six weeks, YEAHHHH)<br /> AS far as getting rid of the Glasspar, I would rather sell my 1954 chevy belair I've had for the past 19 years.
 
JasonJ

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Engine swap

I have an un-natural bias towards Mercury motors, so I of course am going to say that you could look for an older Mercury inline six. If taken care of, they run and last forever. I have a 69 Merc 1250 (125 horse) that just runs perfect. There are plenty of them out there. I bought an 85 horse Merc inline six off of a guy for $200 because he bought a new Honda 4 stroke and the dealer told him the old motors were worthless. That motor just plain ran perfect. You can find early 70s Mercs in the 125 to 150 horse range in good shape from anywhere between $800 to $1500. You may have to take the boat it is attached to, but you could swap your old motor onto it and sell it to recoup your cost. Good luck...
 
JB

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Engine swap

Well, Jason is biased toward Mercs. I am biased toward JohnnyRudes.<br /><br />I think a 90 or 115 Johnson 60 degree looper would be a good replacement for your old Johnny and able to deliver good performance.<br /><br />Good luck. :)
 
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timothyl

Seaman
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
Messages
62
Re: Engine swap

Hey, thanks for the input. I kind of get the impression that this may be a Ford vs. Chevy type of thing. Are there any motors I should stay away from at all costs?<br /> What about oil injection? When I was in the Coast Guard, we disconnected our oil injection tanks and went with mixing our own. I believe that this was due more to people not keeping an eye out for fluid levels though.<br /> Do outboards follow the same principle as car engines in that if you add larger carburators to a motor and keep out of the throttle you will get better performance and last longer? I ask because I see that many motors have the same cubic inch displacement but larger carbs.
 
JB

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Engine swap

It has not been my experience that bigger carbs, operated at partial throttle, add to engine life or performance in auto engines without extensive other changes.<br /><br />Outboards get different hp from the same displacement in many ways, larger carbs being only one possibility. Because of the way 2 strokes move the fuel/air charge, larger carbs without other, complementary changes would probably make little difference in performance and could degrade engine life and fuel economy.<br /><br />Roscoe: No, Force was not mentioned.<br /><br />Good luck. :)
 
JasonJ

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Engine swap

JohnnyRudes rock too, I just can't help but love that nasty ol' inline six. Also, my impression is that JohnyRudes were optimized for a more generalized use like cruising and pulling skiers and whatever, while Mercs were optimized more for speed performance where they are happier in the higher RPMs. I look around my lake and see them all, even the Force motors, but also when I go by the repair shops, I see a lot of Force, a good amount of JohnyRudes, and very few if any Mercs. While that proves nothing, it is a bit interesting. In the end it will be the condition of the motor you are looking at that counts more than who made it.<br /><br />Ford vs Chevy? Thats an easy question to answer. The 351 in my 95 Ford f150 has 144000 miles, and still runs like it was new, with no leaks or any of that jazz, so I guess we all know what I prefer... :D
 
L

Link

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
4,221
roscoe

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,750
Re: Engine swap

Well Jason, my 4.3L Cheby has 191,000.<br />My 305 has 146,000, has a bad valve guide so it smokes a little on cold starts.<br />And the 350 has almost 180,000.<br />None have leaks, undercarriages are clean and dry.<br />My problem is keeping a vehicle wrapped around the engine. (I recently hit my 3rd deer in 6 years)<br /><br />Grandpa's 307 equipt BelAir had 270,000 when he totalled it.<br /><br />Not funny JB.<br />My Force must be a Chevy, cause its still running.<br /><br />Fill<br />Oil<br />Reservoir<br />Daily
 
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Bob Kimber

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Messages
97
Re: Engine swap

Hi Link,<br /><br />Your shop must be in the miracle business line, kidding :) , the last time I looked the 115 Merc is a 4cyl not a 3cyl like your 90. they share the same bore and stroke and the same carbs except the 115 is 2+2 (only 2cyl firing at idle). Maybe the extra cylinder could just account for the extra 27lbs, you should have a bit of a dig at your shop :D .<br /><br />Bob
 
JasonJ

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Engine swap

Roscoe, I never said Chevy engines are bad, I like Chevy engines. I just happen to like my Ford more at this time. If you were to put a gun to my head and ask me who makes the best engines, it would have to be the Japanese. They make a vastly superior product, but it comes with a price. I have owned vehicles from Ford, Mazda, Isuzu, Chevy, Suzuki, International Harvester, Subaru, Jeep, Dodge, and Nissan. They all were great vehicles, but the Japanese engines stand out. As far as problems, I am forced to admit that the Chevys did give me the most problems, but they are so easy and cheap to work on that it balanced out. The Suzuki and Subaru, as well as the Fords were the only vehicles that I never had to do anything except routine maintenance. I went through three heads on the Isuzu, although they do make a superior diesel engine, their gas engines aren't so great.<br /><br />What is the point of this rambling message? I don't know, but as a true gearhead, I get pretty excited when I hear a weedeater going, so if it has an engine in it, its alright by me... :)
 
C

catfish1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
683
Re: Engine swap

tlands, i'd try to stay away from the old merc inline sixes, they are good motors and will last a long time, but they are also the hardest starting motors ever created. cold blooded! if you run across one for sale and think you might want it, do a search for them here. you will find that what i say is true! i own one. (79 90hp merc) so i am talking from experience.
 
JasonJ

JasonJ

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Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Engine swap

The 85 horse Merc I had always started right away, my current 125 horse can take a bit of time to get going if it has sat all week, but if I use it more often it fires right up. I read somewhere that if you adjust the idle mixture screws 1/4 turn that fixes the hard starting thing, but I can't remember if you turn 'em in or turn 'em out. All I do with mine is crank it for a couple seconds with idle arm all the way in, then open it all the way while cranking and that gets it going after 5 to 10 seconds of cranking. I immediatly back it down so it warms up at 1200 rpms. You have to make sure that bulb is rock hard though, any less and you just crank and crank and crank....
 
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Link

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
4,221
Re: Engine swap

Boating Bob:<br />Hi Bob<br />My orginal reply was to give tlands a weight comparision on newer prop rated motors vrs the 66 boat motor.<br />As per your remarks I went and check it out and you are correct! The 100 & 115HP were 4 cyl which also clears up my confusion on the weight diff as you suggested.<br />But I think it was an honest mistake by the guy I was talking to on the lake. He gave me four or five numbers (with contact names)for different products including the name of the shop he recommended for working on the motor. I have checked several of them and his information has been good so far. I haven't got the motor hooked up yet so I haven't called the shop yet but I'm pretty sure he was thinking I had a 4 cyl. As they say: If it sounds to good to be true, it proubly isn't! Now where am I going to get that extra 25 ponies :) <br /><br />Link
 
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Bob Kimber

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Messages
97
Re: Engine swap

Hi Link,<br /><br />Glad to see you read my post and realised I was just having a bit of fun, seriously I would like to see a 3cyl 90hp on a dyno, they seem to punch above their weight. I have one myself and it out performs the old 6cyl inline 90 merc by a considerable margin, uses about 1/3 less fuel runs 2" bigger pitch prop and an extra 8 mph at WOT, also about 7 mph better at cruise speed (4,000 rpm).<br /><br />I agree about the weight issue and would also suggest to tlands that if his budget allowed he should look for a replacement used motor in the 75 to 90 hp area, giving reasonable performance with fairly light weight without a lot of $$$.<br /><br />regards Bob
 
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timothyl

Seaman
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
Messages
62
Re: Engine swap

I thank every one for their advice. I stopped at a few marine shops on my way back from my cast removal and was surprised at how few used motors are available, then again, being 50 miles from the nearest lake and around a part of the Ohio River with few boat ramps and no marinas what can you expect.<br /> I guess that is a good thing though, I can spend the winter looking for a real good deal and maybe increase the amount I now have for a motor (still cant justify a new motor). I found a 88 merc 90hp for $2400 but even though the motor was "reconditioned" it concerned me. The skeg looked as if it had hit a few to many boat ramps.<br /> I kind of figure that it may be easier/cheaper to buy a boat and swap motors and recoup what costs I can.
 
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