Engine wont shut off!

Beacham

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
46
I got a boat a few weeks ago. I have put about ten hours on the boat since I got it without any real trouble.<br /><br />a tech pointed out that a couple of the flywheel magnets had come loose and slid around against each other. so I got the flywheel off, pried out all of the magnets, cleaned it up (lots of scraping), and replaced them with new ones, as per the instructions in the magnet kit and the advice of some fellow i-boat users. thanks! meanwhile, I noticed that the stator had a cooked coil, and recalled that the battery did not seem to charge while I ran the boat. so, I replaced the stator, as well as the power packs and ignition coils. both power packs and a couple of the coils had cracks in the potting, and I have had power pack troubles before, so I figured that I wold spend the money and effort in the name of preventative maintainance. <br /><br />further, I replaced the regulator/rectifier. again, easy while the flywheel is off, and again in the name of prevention. from what little I understand, a bad or aging voltage reg in this system can cook the stator, so it seemed to make sense, since again, one of the coils on my stator was blackened to bare wire. <br /><br />SO, pretty much everything was just bolt-in and hook-up. ..or so it seemed. on re-assembly, the motor started and ran like a champ, but with the engine running, the voltage indicated 18 volts. it sits at 13-14 volts fully charged with the engine not running. but YIKES! the damned thing will not shut off! I cut the fuel at a petcock I installed to switch fuel to a kicker and waited for it to sputter out. of course now I am worried that 1) I flooded my carbs with oil, running the VRO with gas cut off and 2) that I have cooked some or all of the >500 bucks in ignition componentry that I have just installed. help! what did I do wrong?? <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Posts: 4 | Registered: Mar 2006 | IP: Logged | <br /> <br />ezeke <br />Chief Petty Officer <br />Member # 33164 <br /><br /> posted March 25, 2006 07:39 AM <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Turning the ignition key to "off" grounds the power packs with the black and yellow wire and shuts down the engine. You may want to recheck that line. <br /><br />The system can be cooked by charger running over 18 volts, which is why people here keep emphasis on using good, fully charged marine batteries. <br /><br />Apparently maintenance-free batteries are a problem, but, more often the batteries are just old and weak. <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Posts: 592 | From: Cape Cod | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged | <br /> <br />rodbolt <br />Supreme Mariner <br />Member # 32169 <br /><br /> posted March 25, 2006 08:03 AM <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />double check the blk/yellow wire and make sure they got plugged back up correctly, that motor may also have a shift inturrupt switch that adds a bit of complexity.<br />on the cooked stator, replacing a cooked stator without finding why it cooked just invites another cooked stator.<br />the main reason is bad cables or cable connections and weak batteries.<br />do a voltage drop test on all the battery cables.<br />and check the battery cells for correct specific gravity. <br /> <br />posted by seahawk:<br /><br />ok, will do. the batteries are barely a year old, and are the "maintainance free" blue top optima batts. but I will definitely check the cables. this motor does have a shift interrupt, which is apparently broken, but at the least disconnected. I was unaware of this during about ten hours of trouble free running, but a tech pointed it out when I brought it in for compression check. (the same tech pointed out the magnets under the flywheel and the stator- he is the one that suggested that the voltage regs (rectifiers) on this line of motors were notorious for burning stators, so thats why I replaced that component. the grounds from the power packs: black with yellow stripe. the receiving ends for these lines on my motor are "iffy" at best- can I run them to a ground that I bolt onto the block or run from the starter motor? this is a basic question I have: is one ground as good as another? I will certainly put an ohmeter on the cables. -and back to the shift interrupt: is that a replacement part that I can just get, hook up, and bolt on as well? I notice that without it, shifting is a bit tough, but the motor idles just fine at low RPM and its not really a problem getting in and out of gear. I dont hear any grinding. let me review:<br /><br />new rectifier, stator, power packs, and coils. 1) the problem with engine shutdown is likely a faulty ground from the power packs. check. 2) the problem with the (old) stator could have come from bad connections. I will go through these with a fine tooth comb. check. but a question: could it have come from the rectifier? the potting was cracked. 3) voltage reading after charging the batteries with a charger is at 14-15 volts. when the engine ran, it jumped to 18, but the needle was not pegged. my hope is that my meter is a few volts off, but again, check the resistance of the cables. I started and ran the angine off on one of the two batteries in the bank. and finally 3) the shift interrupt. this is not I part I see in the sierra catalog. any suggestions? okay, truly finally 4) I ran the engine for five minutes after tadding these components, discovered that it would not shut off, and so I turned the fuel petcock. it took about another five minutes to shut off. was the VRO filling my carbs with oil during this time?<br /><br />so far, this furum has helped me immensely. I hope that my experiences give me something I can put back in return as I look over the posts in the future. thanks guys.
 

ezeke

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
12,532
Re: Engine wont shut off!

The fact that you are reading 18 volts indicates a problem for your system. Either your batteries are not charged up, or the wiring is bad, or you are placing too much demand on your batteries.<br /><br />Optima Blue Tops specs, (and I'm sure that they must tie to warranty) state no greater than 15 volts and regulated charger:<br /><br />Optima tech specs <br /><br />Note: It is really hard to follow you when you jump your own threads like that.
 

Beacham

Seaman Apprentice
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Mar 20, 2006
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46
Re: Engine wont shut off!

sorry- I am still figuring this posting thing out. should I start a new thread with questions about the shift interrupt?
 

ezeke

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Sep 19, 2003
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Re: Engine wont shut off!

This one is on top now with almost everthing in it, so why not keep it up. <br /><br />The experienced readers are looking at the longer threads so I doubt if you will be missed.
 

Beacham

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Mar 20, 2006
Messages
46
Re: Engine wont shut off!

thanks ezeke. browsing the postings, you look to be one of those experienced readers! I can see that a fair number of people have disconnected or disabled their shift interruptor in favor of replacing and adjusting a new one. truthfully, I want to avoid running into the dock or aground, so I will look into this, but any advice is appreciated.<br /><br />HOWEVER, yesterday when I started the engine and noticed that it would not shut off again, I panicked and made two rookie mistakes: 1) I turned off the battery switch. engine kept running, so I turned it back on after a few minutes. did I just kill me new regulator/rectifier? 2) as I mentioned before, I turned off the fuel petcock, which eventually ran the line out of gas and killed the engine. argh. can I expect carb problems?<br /><br />I realize now that when this happens, to use the key choke to cut the engine.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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20,066
Re: Engine wont shut off!

no but quit with the post quotes.<br /> it makes it hard to follow<br /> dont sweat the carbs oiling. wont hurt anything for the short term.<br /> if you have an OMC guage check it with a digital multimeter,cheap at radio shack.<br /> its rare the regulator creates an issue. most the time its a cable or cooling issue that creates the problem.<br /> you will need the dmm to correctly do voltage drop tets on the cables and the solinoid anyway.<br /> if the motor is running correctly and the interopt switch is not there it wont shift out of gear. it has no function going into gear.<br /> the blk yellow leads are kill circuit leads and if you ground them you have no spark.<br />but the OMC guages are notorious for failing and reading 14-15 volts with the engine off and 18+ when running.<br />you can pick up a decent DMM that will do most what the average boater wants to do for under 30 dollars and the DVA adapter is less than 50 dollars.<br />the fluke with DVA function is over 200 as is the CD-77.
 

ezeke

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Sep 19, 2003
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12,532
Re: Engine wont shut off!

You will probably get a lot of smoke when you fire it up and it will take longer. I doubt if you got much more oil in there than many guys add when fogging.<br /><br />There is no way to know for sure what the result of your switching is without trying it out or running a series of tests. My guess is no harm.<br /><br />Look the wiring over carefully though before firing it up.<br /><br />Did your motor diesel or was it in fact the wiring?
 

Beacham

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Mar 20, 2006
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Re: Engine wont shut off!

okay, you guys lost me twice: the first time was with regard to some of the acronyms from rodbolt: DMM and DVA. the second was when I got asked if my motor "dieseled." <br /><br />I am going to unwrap and check all of the wiring. the gauge that is on there is some kind of aftermarket brand. I could have overcharged the batts when I hooked them up before all of this wiring and ignition work. -am trying to see if running them down a bit (lights and gauges left on) before the next test. <br /><br />the black wires with yellow stripe coming out of the powerpacks: each of these plug into receivers that come up in the wire wrap. before I started, the black/yellow wires coming out of the old power packs were crossed together and tied onto just one of these receivers. the other was left dangling. am I to understand that these are not direct leads to ground? ..and where does the missing shift interrupt fit in here?<br /><br />sorry for the posting hassles, and thanks very much for your help. am off to get a testing kit.<br /><br />db
 

ezeke

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Sep 19, 2003
Messages
12,532
Re: Engine wont shut off!

Sorry, re. dieseling:<br /><br />If you run your motor up to high RPM without a load, it can take off and you cannot stop it electronically. This usually has to do with carbon that is red hot in the chamber and continues to fire the fuel with the ignition off. Obviously, a well tuned motor that is decarbed is less likely to do that.<br /><br />Nothing to do with boats, but I blew up a 427 V8 this way once, but never again.<br /><br />Shops use test tanks and test props. <br /><br />The rest of us have to tie the boat to a dock, or back the trailer down the ramp and run the test while the boat is secured to the trailer. It is still easier with a test prop than a real prop.
 

Seasport

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 2, 2005
Messages
410
Re: Engine wont shut off!

OK db. You don't mention what motor you have btw.<br /><br />A few translations for you:<br /><br />DMM - digital multimeter. As rodbolt says you can pick one of these up pretty cheaply from an electronics store.<br /><br />DVA adaptor is an adaptor probe that allows you to use a normal voltmeter to read peak voltage - which is what you really want for most outboard voltage measurements on ignition systems etc.<br /><br />See<br /> http://www.iboats.com/products/16/38060_cdi_peak_reading_dva_voltage_adapter.html <br /><br />Problem is that normal meters read like an average value of an AC voltage. That is OK when you have a smooth sine wave type AC voltage (like your mains electricity) but not so good when you have erratic pulses like you do on an outboard.<br /><br />Have a look at this link for more info on electrical testing:<br /> http://outboardparts.com/omc/troubleshooting/trublshtinghlp.htm <br /><br />Sounds like your boat's voltmeter is inaccurate if it is reading 14V-15V off a 12V battery with the motor off.<br /><br />You're worried that you may have fried your rectifier/regulator when you switched off the battery. This is a favorite way of killing them.<br /><br />Does your tach still work? Get an accurate meter and read the DC voltage at the battery (normal meter is OK) when the motor is running. Does this go to about 13.5V. If so that's a good indication that the rectifier/regulator is OK.<br /><br />Your key switch should ground out the black yellow leads coming out of the powerpacks when the switch is turned to the off position. If you hook them up to a good ground then your motor will never run. These wires will be joined together somewhere.<br /><br />Have you got a shop manual. Would answer many of your problems.
 

emdsapmgr

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Dec 9, 2005
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11,551
Re: Engine wont shut off!

You said you replaced the power packs. From that I infer that you have the older style model that uses two packs. Did you put new packs on, or just other packs you had on hand from another engine? Possible that the problem of not shutting off relates to the packs. Some packs (in pairs) are not compatible with each other. When you shut off the key to short the packs, some packs will create an internal short to permit current to keep going to the ignition. This happened on my 1983 V6 engine, with a pair of used packs. Replaced one of the two packs and the system shut off normally. My spin on this was that I had two 6200 rev limit packs installed, when they system only specifies one. Try swapping around with your old packs and see what happens.
 

Cricket Too

Lieutenant Commander
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May 14, 2003
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1,732
Re: Engine wont shut off!

Just jumping on this post with a quick question about testing the cables. Should you check voltage at the engine end to see what kind of drop your getting after the battery, and if so what is a normal voltage drop from battery to starter? Or should you ohm out the cables, and what kind of resistance should I see on cables that are about 12ft. long? Thanks.
 

Beacham

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Mar 20, 2006
Messages
46
Re: Engine wont shut off!

wow thanks for all of the help and input! sorry I forgot to mention that the engine is a 1987 evinrude 225. in fact, when I went through the connections with a fine toothed comb, the black and yellow leads were corroded at the keyswitch. replacing the whole line gave me an engine that shuts off when I turn the key! I replaced the powerpacks with a matched set from sierra, but the ones that were there before were oddballs. I will be sure to compare the batt voltage while shut off and running- that sounds like a good way to tell if charge is being sent from the rectifier, and I will be sure to get my hands on some proper electrical equipment. 12 volts all stop and 13.5 while running. <br /><br />those of you reading this: I started a new thread yesterday about the shift interrupt switch, and how I do not have one. are there any thoughts out there on this? it is not outlined in sealoc, and I am still waiting for my owners manual. if you do know about the shift interrupt, please answer in the seperate thread (titled "running your engine without a shift interrupt switch), to avoid confusion. I am confused enough! (but thankful for the valuable help gotten here)<br /><br />sea hawk in seattle
 

Seasport

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May 2, 2005
Messages
410
Re: Engine wont shut off!

Cricket Too to answer your question.<br /><br />Using an ohmmeter to measure your battery cable resistance isn't much use. Problem is, even with a bad cable the resistance is still low and meters don't handle very low resistances wel. An ohmmeter basically measures resistance by passing a small current through the circuit and measuring the voltage drop. It's best to do a voltage drop test where you're passing a very large current (like 200A) and measuring the voltage drop.<br /><br />You get voltage drops in all parts of the circuit, including the -ve battery ground cables, when your starter motor is turning over the motor and drawing a lot of current out of the battery .<br /><br />OMC/BRP specify acceptable voltage drops as <0.3V battery to solenoid, <0.2V across solenoid, <0.2V between solenoid and starter motor +ve and <0.3V across -ve battery cable. Your battery voltage will also drop down under load. So it's normal for your starter motor to "see" less than 12V. Anything over about 9.5V should get it turning OK.
 

Beacham

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
46
Re: Engine wont shut off!

okay, an end to the story- the wiring now checks out, and my voltmeter was bad. new voltmeter (and handheld) is accurate and now the ignition goes to ground (black/yellow) when I turn the key off. the connection was bad. <br /><br />THANK YOU ALL! I will watch for posts where I can help out. this is a great forum.<br /><br />thanks again
 
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