ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

[Andysdad]

2012 ETEC 90 - starts but stops after <1 second.

Dealer looked at it today, said "too much slow running"; they cleaned injectors and checked fuel delivery lines/connectors etc. High Pressure pump fine, diagnostics fine. Started and stopped OK so "fixed". Engine 68 hours old.

Picked boat up from them and went out on it - ran 1 hour including WOT for 20 minutes, upto 5100 RPM, averaged 19kts - never missed a beat. Stopped for 1 hour - would not restart, same as before. Turn key, fires then dies - repeat x 20 so battery fine, fuel full (and fresh).

Any ideas?

Many thanks,

A

 

[boobie]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Take it back to the dlr and have him put his lap top on it and check for any codes.

 

[multimech]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Take it back to the dealer and tell them that it is not fixed. Our shop would put it to the front of the line and fix it right and tell you we were sorry you had the aggravation and not charge you another cent. Unless of course we found water in your fuel. 90HP is not programmed for nor does it have the circuitry to tell you that.

If you have system check or Icommand gauges and they don't show any codes or give any warnings, it is not something that the EMM is looking for that is the problem, most likely mechanical or failed (failing) electronic part.

 

[Andysdad]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Thanks both.

Boat not back at Dlr yet but over the phone he says possibly sooted injectors from slow running - can be dismantled/cleaned but 5 hours = $500 and not warranty. Sound plausible? (Except did 20 mins WOT on the run prior to it failing again so would have thought that would clean injectors/plugs (dlr used spray in cleaner and it runs on XD100)).

Spark plugs were black too but he cleaned them last time too.

Or could it be micro airleak somewhere? If it was, I guess bulb would soften and it would start some times, not others. As it is is never starts (well - ran for 30 seconds twice in 20 tries).

All suggestions gratefully accepted.

A

 

[82rude]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

I don't buy that bull about slow running for one second.my 60 etec proably runs 80 percent of the time at just above idle and has never missed a beat!call your countrys rep for brp and tell them the problem ,also ask these same questions over at the brp site ,they have a boating community over there and I believe the guy that answers most of the questions is heavily involved with evinrude and has been for years.my chum has a 115 rude and trolls extensively with it also(etec).if your saying 5100 rpm is wot that's too low.heres a outside possibility ,if your priming the bulb evertime you use motor you may be flooding it?i have not primed my bulb since I bought my motor ,even if it runs out of gas as the one time I did it ran horribly.you don't need to prime the bulb you have a powerfull fuel pump that will suck up the gas like nothing.prime bulb at beginning of year and don't touch it again.im on my second year without touching the bulb.

 

[Andysdad]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Thanks - I only prime the bulb as a just-in-case to help starting; previously had faulty tank connector that leaked and priming was only way to get home. New connector sorted it (gets me thinking - did that air leak cause LP fuel pump failure which causes current non-start? Would LP pump failure/low pressure show on diagnostics?)

Got it booked-in to dlr for Monday but wondering if another dlr might be better - this one "doesn't like warranty as I only get $20/hour" - seems very low to me (retail is $100/hr). You have to trust people I suppose.

I know I'm babbling on but just want it fixed!

Any Australian members with experience of contacting BRP?

Thanks everyone,

A

 

[multimech]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Your dealer is telling you BS about the injectors getting sooted up. He should not be spraying anything into the engines. These engines use very little oil and it is radically reduced at idle, as is the fuel mixture. Plugs fouled, sure. Injectors sooted up, no way. They could have gotten water in them. Has he checked your fuel or even pulled one apart to see if that may be a problem? Has he checked fuel pressure? Has he done compression? Checked spark? You should have been given all of that information from them servicing it.

I have yet to see an etec have an air leak in the block. I have been working on them since they came out.

If someone tells you they don't like to do warranty work because he is getting $20 an hour, run as fast as you can. You up your warranty rate by sending techs to school to keep up on the technology. Find a reputable shop that actually cares enough to make sure they keep up their schooling.

 

[multimech]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

If you have a problem from using the primer bulb, you have a problem with the VST. It has a float in it and it will not flood the engine unless you have a leak in the lift pump or a leak in the float assembly. If it would be the "VST it would have to be replaced as a unit. They are not serviceable and no one in their right mind would attempt it if the engine is under warranty.

If your engine is under warranty, the shop has to fix it and fix it for free, unless you have water in the fuel or oil, period.

 

[82rude]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

good advise multimech!

 

[Andysdad]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Multimech & 82rude,

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

He cleaned the injectors with a spray down the intake - bad mark number 1.

Don't think I've had water in tanks - always fuel from good station and I cleaned the tanks out when I got the boat (30 hours ago) and changed the filters (big spin-on and the one under the engine cover) when the first fault happened.

Your comment about reluctance to do warranty rings true - the Admiral said the same - bad mark number 2.

I think I might find another dlr (trouble is they are 1 hour away). He did do the work on Monday for free - guilty maybe after first fix not working?

What I don't understand is why it won't idle yet it will run well once going - fuel injection, electronic ignition, 68 hours old; just doesn't make sense. But it is what it is.

A

 

[multimech]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

These engines are hard to troubleshoot without the proper tools and experience. It could be anything from a faulty EMM to sensor output. I hate to speculate without having the information I would need. If it is under warranty, it is in your best interest to find a reputable dealer that will have you on the water in no time and enjoying your engine. It would be worth the hours ride for the peace of mind.

BTW, it sounds as if your model may have the water in fuel detection If you have a canister type of fuel filter (looks like an oil filter) with an electrical connection attached, you do. That is good news for you, as it would have told you that you have water in the fuel. Most of the 90s I work on don't have that on them, although I know there is a kit for it.

 

[Andysdad]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

MM,

I will contact other dlr (who actually fitted the engine) - I just don't have confidence in this one (and he's miserable!).

Fuel filter does not have wires but are you saying a 2012 90 will have the capability to connect to one if fitted? Might be an additional insurance.

Thanks again for your help - much appreciated, being able to bounce ideas around with an expert.

I will let you all know how I get on; probably next week though.

A

 

[multimech]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

I'll need to check the update guides for that information. I'll do it this weekend and get back to you.

 

[woody66912]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

The vst is a touchy spot with BRP. They don't even want us techs to mess with them we just replace them. I think you have the needle valve intermittently sticking. this is the way I went about it. No codes found,so right away I go to the things that don't set a code. I removed the zip tie on the hose that comes from the vst and goes to the intake manifold and went for a ride, and of course it never failed. I showed the customer the hose and told him when it does not restart pull that hose off the intake and see if fuel comes out of when you turn the key to run, he asked me if it does then what, Try to tap lightly on the top of the vst if it stops get back to the trailer ASAP. If it don't get towed, any how we have found the issue.

 

[Crosbyman]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

I have a 2005 75 ETEC ..same basic engine as the 90 ETEC... it never sooted up to a point of stalling ans I use xd100 which is a super clean oil meant to prevnt carbon build up.

82 Rude......As to WOT at 5100 I believe that is pretty close to optimum 5200 RPM range for a I3 engine.

 

[82rude]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

I have a 2005 75 ETEC ..same basic engine as the 90 ETEC... it never sooted up to a point of stalling ans I use xd100 which is a super clean oil meant to prevnt carbon build up.

82 Rude......As to WOT at 5100 I believe that is pretty close to optimum 5200 RPM range for a I3 engine.

yes ,my apoligies ,I was thinking of my 60 which is max 6000 rpm.brp though is showing 45-5400 for the 90 .I would like to see the rpm closer to 5400 if I was the owner.but he is making max hp right where he is though.being a 2012 id be all over somebody to get it fixed as im sure it is a fair investment for the op.so far my 2011 has been flawless.

 

[Andysdad]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Thanks everyone for the continued info and interest.

Yes 5100 is near sweet spot for I3 90; I did wonder what you meant 82rude but I didn't want to criticise someone helping me (it would be 2rude!). Plus the hull is a beat-up 40 year old half-cabin so 33Kts is pretty good IMHO.

I am taking the boat to the original installing dlr on Thursday; probably for the best as they have other warranty work to do (trim gauge not working and Seastar hydraulic steering leaking - both fitted Jan 12 with the new motor; add to that the prior issue with leaking tank connector from the fit-up and I am not too confident about their abilities!)

Local guy OK with me going elsewhere - he had already discussed my case with the BRP Rep and is thinking fuel pump; I think now I was too harsh on him. My bad.

Will post to let everyone know what happens (I hate it when people help someone and there is no result posted!)

A

 

[Andysdad]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

OKaaaaaaaaaay, so the Dealer has had the boat over 3 weeks and it is still there. "We're really busy" (Summer is round the corner here in the Southern Hemisphere)......

Changed fuel pump (didn't say which - I know, I should have asked) and now starts fine.

BUT "It's 95% but it idles rough/misses a beat every now and then when running" (which may or may not be different things - they are less than clear in their explanations).

I figure rough idle is an injector may need proper cleaning/replacing - ETECs are pretty sensitive to spray pattern.

Missing a beat every now and then (it has done this probably once per trip ish since we had it) - could be any electrical gremlin/debris moving around/poor fuel?

All ideas/suggestions/heckling gratefully received.

A

 

[Andysdad]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Another 3.5 weeks later.......

Motor is fixed (they say) - got Evinrude's permission to fit THREE new injectors (they say $2000 each - if correct, that is a bunch of cash; luckily it is warranty!) and now 100% (they say).

Pick it up tomorrow - just in time as summer has arrived down under - it was 35C (100F) yesterday!

Thanks everyone for the advice - hope NOT to need any more soon!

A

 

[seahorse5]

Re: ETEC 90 - Starts but won't run

Has your dealer replaced the VST under service bulletin 2012-06(S) dated October 23, 2012 yet? That helps cure the hot start problem that you describe

New Vapor Separator Kit, P/N 5009033 -- 40 thru 90 hp E-TEC