Ethanol Fuel Issues

[Hpracer]

I read with interest the sticky post about Ethanol E10 gas being an acceptable marine fuel and that it may in fact be a better fuel than E0 for marine use. I would submit that the millions of dollars that are spent each year dealing with the results of this fuel stand in absolute rejection of this notion. Any fuel that, when combined with water, produces a solution that can attack the insides of the fuel delivery system and cause corrosion that can flake off and clog screens and injectors is definitely not marine-friendly.

A local outboard mechanic, who fishes quite frequently, takes apart his VST three times a year to clean out the screen to the high pressure pump to remove flakes of corrosion so that he doesn't get stranded on the water. I have had to do this job three times myself over a 6 year period and it takes me half a day to do it (I am admittedly slow). This marine repair shop has added that procedure as part of their standard maintenance list, and they tell customers if their gas is older than a couple of months, pump it out and put it in your car/truck.

​On that note, my question to the Iboat brain-trust is: Does anyone know of a coating that can be applied to the inside of the VST to prevent it from being attacked by this Ethanol/water solution? This could prevent the corrosion that clogs the screens and injectors of these motors. I have to wonder if new motors might have something that can stand up to this problem, since it has been around for a while now.

 

[Chris1956]

Gee, if water in the E10 is your issue, and it sounds like it is, find a waterfree source of E10 and install an external water separator! I dumped my water separator after running 50 gal of E10 thru the boat. I found a teaspoon or water. Since the separator can hold nearly a quart of water, that amount is not an issue.

It takes a fair amount of water to cause separation of the alcohol from the gasoline, and since the fuel tank pickup does not pull fuel from the absolute bottom of the tank, it would take a large amount of water to contaminate that much fuel. Siphon the bottom of the fuel tank every coupe of years and it will not be an issue, even if you get some water with your E10.


​One of the local mechanics here is absolutely paranoid about E10. He is convinced that the E10 is the worst thing since the Cuban Missile Crises.

 

[gm280]

OMG, are we going to go through another E10 thread with all the usual players taking sides again. I thought we had two or three such threads just recently. :facepalm:

However, :welcome: aboard Hpracer to iboats. Always like to have new members...

There were about three recent threads concerning E10 and such. May want to search them out and read. Long debates though, without any winners!.

 

[GA_Boater]

MODERATOR WARNING

As soon as this thread goes off track, it will be closed!

This is the only question to answer;

On that note, my question to the Iboat brain-trust is: Does anyone know of a coating that can be applied to the inside of the VST to prevent it from being attacked by this Ethanol/water solution? This could prevent the corrosion that clogs the screens and injectors of these motors. I have to wonder if new motors might have something that can stand up to this problem, since it has been around for a while now.

Thank you.

 

[Hpracer]

However, :welcome: aboard Hpracer to iboats. Always like to have new members...

There were about three recent threads concerning E10 and such. May want to search them out and read. Long debates though, without any winners!.

Thanks for the welcome. I would expect that there are other threads on this topic and I tried to search for them before posting. But being new to the site, and even after spending some time looking for it, I have yet to find any way to search existing posts. Please let me know how I can find them.

 

[bruceb58]

Thanks for the welcome. I would expect that there are other threads on this topic and I tried to search for them before posting. But being new to the site, and even after spending some time looking for it, I have yet to find any way to search existing posts. Please let me know how I can find them.

searching on here leaves a lot to be desired.

Use this link to search for ethanol on iboats"
https://www.google.com/search?q=eth...thanol+iboats+site:forums.iboats.com&safe=off

 

[Faztbullet]

From a mechanic's view if your having to clean VST your water separator is not doing its job or being neglected in regular maintenance cycle. I have torn many VST's down for various repairs and can only remember a couple that had corrosion.The gas/oil mix in VST should leave a film to prevent this....

 

[Sea Rider]

Just for the record, is it true or false that E fuels lessens octane by 1-2 octanes and that yields less MPH than same non E fuels running at same speed ?

Happy Boating

 

[bruceb58]

Just for the record, is it true or false that E fuels lessens octane by 1-2 octanes and that yields less MPH than same non E fuels running at same speed ?

Happy Boating

False...ethanol has a higher octane than gasoline.

Your question on MPH vs speed makes zero sense. Aren't you running the same MPH if you are running at the same speed?

 

[hemi rt]

False...ethanol has a higher octane than gasoline.

Your question on MPH vs speed makes zero sense. Aren't you running the same MPH if you are running at the same speed?

If this is the case why does it take more ethanol to go the same distance over gasoline. You must have your figures reversed. Gallon for gallon gasoline produce more power thus has a higher octane rating. If you don't believe this just use the net - type in 'ethanol versus gasoline' and see the results

 

[ondarvr]

If this is the case why does it take more ethanol to go the same distance over gasoline. You must have your figures reversed. Gallon for gallon gasoline produce more power thus has a higher octane rating. If you don't believe this just use the net - type in 'ethanol versus gasoline' and see the results

You didn't understand what you quoted, and you don't understand what the octane rating means.

 

[ondarvr]

Just for the record, is it true or false that E fuels lessens octane by 1-2 octanes
Happy Boating

False

 

[fhhuber]

Ethanol has higher octane (resistance to detonation...) but lower BTU/gallon (energy ) than gasoline. You either burn more fuel for the same power or lose power. when you add ethanol to gasoline.
Appx 85k BTU/gallon for ethanol vs appx 120k btu/gallon for gasoline

Its kind of an interesting effect because you CAN burn more ethanol per combustion cycle and thus get more horsepower from the same engine. But in getting that extra power you go through a lot more fuel.

Comparing an engine on pure ethanol vs straight gasoline you might have 20% to 50% more power on the ethanol, but up to DOUBLE the miles per gallon on gasoline.

 

[bruceb58]

You must have your figures reversed

You are confused on what octane means.

 

[ondarvr]

I read with interest the sticky post about Ethanol E10 gas being an acceptable marine fuel and that it may in fact be a better fuel than E0 for marine use. I would submit that the millions of dollars that are spent each year dealing with the results of this fuel stand in absolute rejection of this notion. Any fuel that, when combined with water, produces a solution that can attack the insides of the fuel delivery system and cause corrosion that can flake off and clog screens and injectors is definitely not marine-friendly.

A local outboard mechanic, who fishes quite frequently, takes apart his VST three times a year to clean out the screen to the high pressure pump to remove flakes of corrosion so that he doesn't get stranded on the water. I have had to do this job three times myself over a 6 year period and it takes me half a day to do it (I am admittedly slow). This marine repair shop has added that procedure as part of their standard maintenance list, and they tell customers if their gas is older than a couple of months, pump it out and put it in your car/truck.

​On that note, my question to the Iboat brain-trust is: Does anyone know of a coating that can be applied to the inside of the VST to prevent it from being attacked by this Ethanol/water solution? This could prevent the corrosion that clogs the screens and injectors of these motors. I have to wonder if new motors might have something that can stand up to this problem, since it has been around for a while now.

What motor do you have and what motor does the mechanic have?

You shouldn't have a chronic water in the fuel problem.

 

[jbcurt00]

And again:

MODERATOR WARNING

As soon as this thread goes off track, it will be closed!

This is the only question to answer;

On that note, my question to the Iboat brain-trust is: Does anyone know of a coating that can be applied to the inside of the VST to prevent it from being attacked by this Ethanol/water solution? This could prevent the corrosion that clogs the screens and injectors of these motors. I have to wonder if new motors might have something that can stand up to this problem, since it has been around for a while now.

Thank you.

 

[jbcurt00]

What motor do you have and what motor does the mechanic have?

You shouldn't have a chronic water in the fuel problem.

Hpracer started this topic and also mentioned VST and cleaning the screens
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...mercury-4-stroke-will-not-go-to-full-throttle

 

[ondarvr]

As stated in the other thread, Seafoam works well to prevent corrosion in the fuel system, there are other products too, but Seafoam was near the top of the list in performance and lower in cost than the others in testing.

 

[GA_Boater]

Warning ignored. Closed.