Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

[murinsky]

Ok, for the regulars who have been gracious enough to follow my posts, I have met almost unanimous decision, both here and locally, to replace my 20 year old rusty Merc 454. <br /><br />That said, my next step is locating a suitable COMPLETE replacement, since there is basically nothing worth saving on the old engine. <br /><br />It seems there are really 2 classes of complete engines. (I don't have the time or expertise to deal with a longblock at this point). <br /><br />One, for between $2000 and $3500 or so you can get a "remanufactured longblock" ready to drop in with all the bolt on's and internals of unsure origin.<br /><br />Two, for about double that, say $6000 to $8000, you can get basically the same thing but with a 2 year warranty. <br /><br />Name brand and/or OEM factory involvement seem to raise the price even higher. <br /><br />I'm sorry to say here, everyone, I don't have $6 to $8k to spend on this project. This started out as a project to replace a pinhole in my oil pan. Realistically the boat will be sold in 4-5 years due to a planned career change/relocation and will be used June-September in the meantime. <br /><br />SO. . . I am looking at one of these bargain basement engines. My question is not, "Can you please talk me out of this?" Rather, how can I evaluate these purveyors of cheap engines? What should I be looking for, assuming I know enough to even be skeptical? Yes, my search includes ebay. I do consider myself an ebay pro (I happily bought my car there ). It seems like the best deals are there. I mean, how bad can these engines be? I am not really concerned about having a 25 year engine....a couple of reliable seasons with routine maintenance is all I'm asking. The main thing I worry about is, maybe it's complete garbage right out of the box?<br /><br />Anyway, I'll stop rambling, but I think you get the drift of what I'm getting at.<br /><br />Thanks for any thoughts,<br />Mike

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

When talking about big block motors, the price of all components is quite a bit more expensive than the popular small block 5.7L (350 CI). People have to make money to stay in business, and I just can't find any way for someone to sell a COMPLETE, remanufactured big block with all bolt on accessories for 2K, or even 3K.<br />Maybe someone else knows something I don't, but my opinion would be to run away from anyone selling a complete "rebuilt" big block for $2000-3000 dollars. You should expect to pay that for the short or maybe long block.

 

[man-of-war]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

new info. I found a remanufactured 454 gen 4 long block located in Washington 1800-942-7800 .the engine is a standard /LH rotation.7 year warranty $2,251.00<br /><br />OR 1-800-786-7639 ''marine engine inc''ask for dave.

 

[murinsky]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Here is an example of the class of product I am looking for, and just to show that this stuff is out there:<br /><br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-7...mZ4613888996QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQtcZphoto <br /><br /><br />Thanks for the help again.<br /><br />Mike.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

You can check HERE.<br /><br />The website says your engine is out of stock, but call Raul anyway. Several of us have bought engines from him and have been very satisfied.<br /><br />I agree with Waterone on people's right to make money. No problem there. However, I try to find people who are not out to make ALL of their profit on me. Raul is one of those guys.

 

[Always Broke]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Not much advice here just a related story, I’ll try to keep it short and leave out all the heartache details. Your line “how bad can these engines be” got me. Remember the old saying you only get what you pay for. My brother had an 83’ Mustang that threw a rod through the block. He went shopping for the cheapest rebuilt long block he could find. After installing the motor it ran like, shell we say “poop”. Smoked, no power, noisy, etc…We discovered they put standard size pistons in it after boring it 40 over, duhhh. After all the hours spent removing the old motor and installing the new motor and finding the problem with it removing it and installing another one, the company stood behind the motor but not the all the labor. The first motor came in about two days he had to wait two weeks for the replacement to come in. I would think twice about trying to save a buck, your liable to lose a lot more in the long run

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

If the only reason you pulled the engine was because of a oil pan pin hole and the mechanic said the engine was junk, I'd be concerned about the advice he/she was giving. If the engine was running (maybe not well, but running) there is a pretty fair chance the engine can be rebuilt. And it doesn't have to be a marine engine only rebuilder. Engines are engines -- the rebuilder need only know they need to use marine parts where those are different than their auto cousins. In fact they can probably suggest better quality parts that result in a tougher engine than the original. They can do as much of the work as you want them to do including complete assembly. When finished you know what you have and will generally get a warranty from the rebuilder. This will add bucks at resale time as you have records. If the engine was indeed junk when pulled -- such as a cracked block, then you need to look at alternatives.

 

[murinsky]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Up in smoke, In addition to the oil pan hole, there is a significant corrosion problem on the outside of the engine, many of the oil pan bolts are destroyed and broken off inside the block, as are some of the front mount bolts, and looking under the thermostat housing showed the water passage there almost completely choked with rusty buildup. Is this a candidate for a rebuild? Also, I really have no idea what to expect as far as how long this process takes and how much it costs. Any ballpark figures here? Youre not the first one to tell me I can end up with a better product, so I am not dead set against this. Now would be the time, right? (Winter?)<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Mike.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

you've got it out. now it's eazy to tear in to and see how bad it is. if your going to junk it, it's easier to carry in parts. i was ready to junk my 4.3, thought the block was cracked, ubtil i pull the heads and found the valves in #5 stuck, allowing water intrusion. now it's sweet again.

 

[glasply1]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

My mechanic replaced my 350 chev. engine with a long block for $2600. I had to pay for the fork lift round trip, boat haul out, etc., to the tune of about another $300. I got a 1 year warranty on the engine but its been three years and almost 400 hours of operation, with no problems. I had the outdrive (Volvo 280) gears replaced about 6 years ago for about $1100 - about $500 of that was for gear assembly. <br />Sounds as though you're also taking into consideration: 1. how much you will get for the boat when you sell it in five years or so and 2. current value as is vs. future value after rebuild costs. Good luck. None of us are done paying for our boating!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Broken bolts amount to labor in removing them. Sometimes its easy, sometimes not. The rebuilder would tell you in minutes whether the engine can be rebuilt. If you are uncomfortable with the engine and the rebuilder is uncomfortable with it, you probably should pursue alternatives. Since you are at the rebuilder, talk with them about another engine. Just make sure they provide a marine equivalent. No buts!!

 

[paulrfrancisco]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Personally, for the short duration your concerned about, I'd go with a warrenteed long block, then add a discount manifold and riser setup compatable with the exhaust layout with you boat ('cause there are several varieties, and you wouldn't need that extra expense converting the exhaust ) and then rebuild the carb and reuse the other components, (you said, I believe, in an earler post, that the moter ran decent enough... If I remember correctly) and take your chances on the failures of the external components, (ps pump, alt, dist, carb, etc...) as they occur.... IMHO

 

[paulrfrancisco]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Upinsmoke.... car engines are not the same at marine engins.. Marine engines are designed for HP and tourque in the low RPMs and sustaines it evenly all the way through the range as well as it is designed to run at high rpms for extended periods of time... <br /><br />This is accomplished by the correct cam, as well as pistons and bearings I suspect too.. so you need to be careful or you will be disappointed with the results...<br /><br />I'm sure rodbolt or bondo can explaine the differences better...

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Paulie -- an engine rebuilder (marine or auto) knows what's needed if you tell him you have a marine engine. That shop is rebuilding a long block which started life as an auto/truck engine and he's not concerned about any of the externals as they must be removed for the rebuild. Exhaust manifolds, intake, distributor, fuel injection/carb are not the shops responsibility unless you want them to repace those parts as well. I'm not talking about someone with a boring bar in their shed out back doing this work. I'm talking about a shop that specializes in engine rebuilding. There is nothing "special" about rebuilding a marine engine so long as marine parts are used where required. After market cam, piston, valve, crank, bearing, valve spring, lifter, rocker arm and even cylinder head manufacturers make marine equivalents. In fact there are more camshaft grinds than you can shake a stick at. An after market cam with similar lift, duration, and lobe separation the engine will perform as well as and in some cases better than the original and it will not have a stamp on that says "Marine". The nice part about this process is you can specify what you want. If you want a "screamer" they can make one for you. Just make sure the outdrive can handle the power.

 

[paulrfrancisco]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Thanks for the info, Upinsmoke. I probably shouldn't have directed this to you. It was really a general caution that its not as simple as just rebuilding a truck engine....that marine engines are indeed different and one needs to be aware of this so they go in to a rebuilding situation knoweldgable... I stand corrected and informed...thanks.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Ok, repeat after me... from the great book of BONDO:<br /><br />" A Chevy, is a Chevy, is a Chevy!"<br /><br />A base Small or Large Block Chevy engine from an auto or truck is NO different than one of tha same vintage that has been marinized, except for the cam, brass soft plugs, stainless steel headgaskets and water circulation pump. <br /><br />Everything else being said is an urban legend.<br /><br />**Please note I am reffering to the BASIC LONG BLOCK, not anything else.

 

[ajkolar]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Murinsky, I also have purchase a long block from Rapid-O-Marine (Raul). I ran it all last season and am getting ready for another. Very happy with the engine and the service. I know there will be a price difference because you are looking for a big block, but my 5.7 litre 4 bolt mail ran me Just under $1800 for everything! I was lucky enough to be able to bolt everything else of from my original. Just an FYI.

 

[murinsky]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Thanks all for the replies. I am going on Mondy to visit here: http://www.65ldiesel.com/page/page/359542.htm <br />and see how these guys strike me. They offer a 1 year warranty and have been in business for awhile, and are relatively local for me (compared to most of the places down south). I will talk to Raul, although I think his price for a complete will be out of my range. I don't have time to build it myself, with learning how to do everything the right way for just about every step. <br /><br />If I like what I see, I may just junk the old one. If not, I will investigate having some work done on it. I'll keep you posted.<br /><br />Mike.

 

[drkeyes]

Re: Evaluating the "cheaper" complete replacement engines

Murinsky, I am curious what you did and how it went. I am also facing the same decision. Thanks.