F60 starter update- Rodbolt & others

kellaig

Seaman
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
63
Hi there<br /><br />Well an auto electrician can't fault the electrics or the battery of the starting system.<br /><br />He indicated that as it is an inertia drive starter motor the pinion gear spring may be too tight or tense alowing the pinion gear to drop down as the motor begins to crank and takes the load of the spring. If it is too quick in releasing sometimes it may not start.<br />How can the load be off the spring with the emergency kill switch is removed????<br /><br />Sounds feasible?<br /><br />How do you adjust the spring???<br /><br />Regards'<br /><br />Craig
 

bigbrownbuku

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
885
Re: F60 starter update- Rodbolt & others

you cant. i have repaired this by replacing the sprag. camp motors that start a lot get this same problem.
 

kellaig

Seaman
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
63
Re: F60 starter update- Rodbolt & others

Hi there,<br /><br />The outboard goes back tomorrow but they are at loss to explain why the load is coming off the starter motor whilst cranking. As mentioned earlier all the electrics have been tested and no fault found.<br /><br />If this motor doesn't start quick enough the load comes off the bendix drive and it disengages failing to continue to crank the motor.<br /><br />With the emergency kill switch removed the starter motor will only continue to crank the motor on less than 50 percent of the time. The rest of the time it diesngages<br /><br />What causes the load to come off during the cranking process- is it compression or the flywheel which is new.<br /><br />does the CDI have a part to play or could timing be off. All along i have had the impression that the motor has thought it has started but it hasn't quite got there and the bendix drive has disengaed prematurely.<br /><br />I am losing patience??<br /><br /><br />Regards<br /><br />Kellaig<br /><br /><br />Any suggestions for the mechanic<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />Kellaig
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: F60 starter update- Rodbolt & others

ok<br /> how the starter drive works.<br /> when the solinoid is activated by the keyswitch the contacts close allowing a very high current to the strter.<br /> a DC motor has incredible starting speed and torque, as long as its getting current, in fact all it "knows" is it is not going fast enough and wants more current to go faster.<br /> if current gets limited, either from battery output not enough, bad connections or cables that are to small the starter starts slowing down.<br />the very rapid start of the armeture turning causes the heavy drive to ride up the inclined plane of the shaft. in otherwords newtons law that says a body at rest tends to stay at rest works.<br />now that the lazy drive has engaged the flywheel it starts turning it. the only way it will fall back down and go to sleep again is if somehow the flywheel speed exeeds the drive speed.<br />once the drive starts falling total narcolepsy takes over and the armeture can spin till the battery dies and it wont come up again.<br /> in an internal compustion engine as the piston compresses the air once it starts back down the air pressure tends to accelerate the crankshaft and flywheel.<br /> as the flywheel is much larger than the pinion if the pinion cannot get enough current to out accelerate the flywheel it drops.<br /> it loses the race.<br />its all about who can spin the fastest and why.<br /> could be your battery cannot supply enough current fast enough, could be you have a poor connection, could be the cables are to small or the starter motor is defective.<br /> nice thing about lec tric ity,<br /> voltage and current are proportional.<br /> if resistance goes up so does voltage and current goes down.<br /> its very simple.<br />if you place your positive meter lead on the positive battery terminal, not cable end, and the negative on the solinoid terminal, not cable end, and crank the motor you should see less than .4 volts, preferably less than .2 and perfect would be 0V.do the same for the negative cable.<br /> from the batt post on the solinoid to the starter post you should see less than .2V again 0 would be perfect. from the batt term,not cable to the starter post,not cable you should see less than .7v while cranking here again 0V would be perfect.<br />the YU-34898 shunt from yamaha coupled with a DMM can quickly tell the current draw while cranking.<br /> if your dealer does not have it or does not know how to use it have them call their district training facility.
 

kellaig

Seaman
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
63
Re: F60 starter update- Rodbolt & others

Hi Rodbolt,<br />The voltage tests were done with a minimal voltage drop of O.6 volts,<br />i changed the battery, new leads and jumpered them onto starter motor to take all other leads out of equation. i would say that the pinion stayed engaged only 50 percent of the time. The rest of the time it was engaed briefly (less than 0.5 seconds ) and dropped out.<br /><br />This motor has had a new flywheel and starter motor with no change, and the yamaha tech has put it down to compression removing load from pinion.<br /><br />Is it time top look at a less tense pinion spring.??as this would keep the piniom engaged longer or is this fix uncommon on Yamahas.<br /><br />This motor is still under warranty but the dealer has said that this no crank issue is a characterisitc of the model, because a new starter and flywheel hasn't fixed the problem of the disengagement.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />Kellaig
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: F60 starter update- Rodbolt & others

its not a common problem.<br /> actually the only time I see it is when the battery cables are to small or the battery connections are bad.<br /> thats why on sone of the reduction gear starters,most notably 60*V and v6 looper omc stuff, you have to keep all the plugs in when compression testing. has anyone run a compression test to see if any cylinder is abnormal ?<br /><br /> I still dont see engine compression being an issue.<br />as an inertia starter it works both ways, you can try to clip the spring but if all the electrical connections are good and the start relay and solinoid are good it should work as designed.<br />let me see if I can remember to look at a wiring diagram today.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: F60 starter update- Rodbolt & others

Just a thought here Gents -- some non-positive shift starters with the problem being described here can be caused by the engine "trying" to start a tad bit before its actually ready. In other words the engine gives a little kick which is just enough to drop out the bendix. This is a situation common to flooded two-strokes. The engine attempts to start but kicks out the bendix before it does. As I said, just a thought so it might be worth looking at base timing that's just a bit too advanced.
 
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