fat fifty point gap

[stephen13]

I am trying to set pt. gap on a '59 50hp Johnson. The manual says pts.
should just open when the timing marks align, but when I set the gap to
.020, the points have already opened and are starting to close when the
marks are aligned. This is true for both sets of pts. Are these pts. wore out
or am I doing something wrong. Am troubleshooting no spark condition,
in spite of age of motor it has been lightly used, cause it is such a gas hog.
It ran great last time out.

Thanks for any help,
stephen

 

[steelespike]

Re: fat fifty point gap

The reccomended method for adjusting the points it to use a a continuity
meter.Disconnect the point lead wire on the side of the mag.Connect one lead to the terminal and the other to the breaker plate.Meter will indicate closed if either set of points is closed.Should indicate open as the timing mark A just passes mark B2 or B1. Use the .020 setting just as a starting point.Final adjustment will differ.

 

[F_R]

Re: fat fifty point gap

I am trying to set pt. gap on a '59 50hp Johnson. The manual says pts.
should just open when the timing marks align, but when I set the gap to
.020, the points have already opened and are starting to close when the
marks are aligned. This is true for both sets of pts. Are these pts. wore out
or am I doing something wrong. Am troubleshooting no spark condition,
in spite of age of motor it has been lightly used, cause it is such a gas hog.
It ran great last time out.

Thanks for any help,
stephen

Um, got the cam right side up?? Turning it the right direction??

 

[stephen13]

Re: fat fifty point gap

Thanks F R, As you suspected I had the cam upside down, can now gap
pts. according to specs. I had removed it to lube magneto bearings.
I had some rust on armature and magnets, think this affected my spark?
I've ordered new pts. , condenser, plug wires , rotor brush, plugs.
The coil resisistance was good, so did not order one. New one is $133!

The rotor looks ok but has a small hole in the plastic sleeve part that looks
like it was drilled. Do you know if they come that way?

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

 

[stephen13]

Re: fat fifty point gap

I just got around to working on '59 50 hp unit again; installed new pts. and
condenser but still have anemic yellow spark off coil button. A question
about the magneto: is it normal for the strength of the magnets in the
housing to fluctuate as the armature is turned? One side will grab a screwdriver hard while the other side is weak, then as I rotate the armature
the weak side becomes strong and the formerly strong side weak.
Does that make any sense?

The coil resistance was 1 ohm primary, 7K secondary and I saw no arcing.
Have continuity on jumper and lead to coil.

Any advice is appreciated.

Stephen

 

[F_R]

Re: fat fifty point gap

I just got around to working on '59 50 hp unit again; installed new pts. and
condenser but still have anemic yellow spark off coil button. A question
about the magneto: is it normal for the strength of the magnets in the
housing to fluctuate as the armature is turned? One side will grab a screwdriver hard while the other side is weak, then as I rotate the armature
the weak side becomes strong and the formerly strong side weak.
Does that make any sense?

The coil resistance was 1 ohm primary, 7K secondary and I saw no arcing.
Have continuity on jumper and lead to coil.

Any advice is appreciated.

Stephen

Don't worry about the magnets, they never go bad. I can't say that I've ever noticed what you are describing, but I've never looked for it either. But it makes sense. The lines of magnetic force are directed through the coil to generate electricity.

Where the wires connect to the stud going through the housing---Did you clean them up shiny bright, and the stud and nut too? Electricity has to make it through the connection, y'know.

Where the coil lays in the housing, did you clean the laminations of any rust and crud where they lay together?

You say you don't see any arcing--are you positive it isn't arcing through the side or end of the coil to the housing? That was a common fault on the 50. Does it have the plastic insulators on the ends of the coils? They are to prevent the arc-through. Of course if it is already arcing through it is too late now. Sort of like closing the door after the horse got out.

Finally, you say you see a hole in the distributor rotor--do you mean in the hole that the shaft goes in? That was another common fault. The hole is from arcing through to the shaft, not drilled. If that is what you mean, the rotor is toast--literally. New rotors come with a little gob of insulating grease in the hole to prevent that. Original 50hp rotors didn't have the grease till the problem was discovered and a change was made in production.

 

[stephen13]

Re: fat fifty point gap

Thanks for your reply F R,

I have removed all rust and polished all connections.
My coil did not have any plastic insulators, only the metal clips.
I put some silicone gasket maker where the clip contacts the coil ends.
The ends of the coil are more than 1/4" from housing and in good contact
with laminations. Still just a feeble spark. I am ready to spring for a new
coil, do you know if they come with insulators? I can't find them on the
parts list I have.

The hole in the rotor is not close to the metal blade, but further up at a
90 deg. angle to the shaft. It is symetrical and looks like it was put there
on purpose.

I hate to give up on this motor, it was such a sweet runner.

Stephen

 

[F_R]

Re: fat fifty point gap

Thanks for your reply F R,

I have removed all rust and polished all connections.
My coil did not have any plastic insulators, only the metal clips.
I put some silicone gasket maker where the clip contacts the coil ends.
The ends of the coil are more than 1/4" from housing and in good contact
with laminations. Still just a feeble spark. I am ready to spring for a new
coil, do you know if they come with insulators? I can't find them on the
parts list I have.

The hole in the rotor is not close to the metal blade, but further up at a
90 deg. angle to the shaft. It is symetrical and looks like it was put there
on purpose.

I hate to give up on this motor, it was such a sweet runner.

Stephen

Insulators are part number 510538. You have to go to a newer model parts list to find them because they were not on the early 50.

Oh, that hole. About 1/8" diameter, right? That is for the ball detent in the side of the shaft.

 

[jpwade_bsu]

Re: fat fifty point gap

Thanks for your reply F R,

I have removed all rust and polished all connections.
My coil did not have any plastic insulators, only the metal clips.
I put some silicone gasket maker where the clip contacts the coil ends.

check post for additional info:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=102883

insulator for the screw coming out of mag body that connects the wire that goes upto to points can possibly be made with plastic ink pin body and 2 plastic washers, the key is to make sure the screw that secures the wires does not contact the mag housing

for weaks spark you might want to break down the mag, and put the housing with its magnets and shaft still attached , with coil removed inside the oven to remove any moisture / oil residules etc. that might exist,

preheat oven to about 250-300 deg.
turn off heat
put parts in oven and let them sit for about 2hrs.

re-assemble, make sure to ge generous with oil to shaft bearing , (saturate cloth oil washer), dable oil on cam lobe cloth wiper as well.

good luck
Joe

 

[stephen13]

Re: fat fifty point gap

Many thanks F R, Joe,

I decided to go over everything one more time before ordering a coil,
hey I'm cheap, with a 50 year old outboard! More attention to detail,
as F R recommended, particularly the magneto laminations, did the trick.
I used 200 grit sandpaper, rust solvent, and blew it out good with compressed
air, and relubed the bearings. My spark then jumped a 3/4" gap.

After reassembly it started right up.

Thanks again,

Stephen