Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

[Texasmark]

You too Chris 1956

Have an '02 3 cyl 90 Merc. It sits in the "garage" for a couple of months or so between outings. I have tested the fuel enrichment solenoid and know it works. Also after getting the engine started, if it coughs, I can energize the FE valve and the engine recovers, so I know it's working and allowing fuel into the IM. Just before launching, I pump up the squeeze bulb and it responds as it should. I get it nice and firm.

Engine in the water, tilt to vertical, key to on, fast idle on my new 2000 remote in full up position, push in key and hold for 30 seconds and crank. Repeat the process. After about 5 minutes of this it finally lights off. I put up the trailer leaving the engine idling and jump in and motor out to the no wake buoys. I firewall it and now that I have ported my prop it takes off as one would expect and moves right up to 5600-5800 if I stay on it. Runs like a top, all over the power band. The rest of the day, if it doesn't sit for too long it will immediately respond to a turn of the key. If it sat too long, fast idle and the key will bring it to life.

I would really like it to do better initially. Any suggestions? I keep fresh fuel, and Sea Foam in the tank. I replaced the fuel filter this year and the old one was not clogged. I felt that if I had a carb or fuel pump issue I couldn't do the WOT performance that I am getting.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[phebus1]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

We will see what the experts say, but on my engine, if I pushed the key in and activated the enrichment valve for 30 seconds it would flood the engine and I would have to crank a long time with the throttle wide open to clear it out. 5 seconds max for mine.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

We will see what the experts say, but on my engine, if I pushed the key in and activated the enrichment valve for 30 seconds it would flood the engine and I would have to crank a long time with the throttle wide open to clear it out. 5 seconds max for mine.

Thank you sir for your reply. I have tried to stay off the "choke" and it was to no avail. If you would, when you take your rig out, how long had it been since you ran it last?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[aussieflash]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

I agree with phebus1 ^^^. 5 seconds then kick....no kick then repeat.30seconds is toooo long.Also check the little enrichener fittings to carbs are not blocked.DONT try and remove them.I know an idiot who snapped one off trying that.http://forums.iboats.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

Dont pump the bulb until its trimmed down and make sure its a OEM bulb of some type(Merc/Yammy/OMC).

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

I'll try the 5 seconds. Could be I am flooding it. Seems when it lights off it is gasping for more fuel and it will try to die till I give it another squirt or two. On breaking the fitting, I agree and haven't touched that. I just rely on the fact that once running I get positive results when I use it. The bulb is Merc and pumps up firm. I don't have the engine fully down because I pump it up just before I back down the ramp and I have about 15 degrees of tilt. Will do as you suggest and wait till i'm in the water and the engine is fully vertical.

Thanks guys for your thoughts.

Mark

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

New plugs and stop the Seafoam.Staybil if your gonna let it set.Mine can set for a week and sometimes for 3 mo.(bad back)I don't use either.I have a water/fuel sep.filter.Check it every 2-3 mo. for water.Change it yearly.
MY OPINION!!!Seafoam can strip the oil from the cylinders.It's meant to help de-carb and I only use it to help bring up compression on a low cylinder.
My motors don't like to be tilted at all when starting.
I had a problem with one of my motors a long time ago.
It would start great in the drive.Put it in the water it was vey difficult to start.Even had to use starting fluid which is a BIG NO,NO.
One time we were going out and it did the usual trick of not starting.
I had it tilted all the way up and hit the key and choke and it fired.Shut it off right away and lowered it and it started right away.
So for a while that's how I started it.
Eventually I remove the carbs and reset the floats.That solved my problem .Everyonce in a while I had to use the tilt trick.
Something about the floats sticking and breaking loose and allowing fuel into the cylinders.
Good luck.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

New plugs and stop the Seafoam.Staybil if your gonna let it set.Mine can set for a week and sometimes for 3 mo.(bad back)I don't use either.I have a water/fuel sep.filter.Check it every 2-3 mo. for water.Change it yearly.
MY OPINION!!!Seafoam can strip the oil from the cylinders.It's meant to help de-carb and I only use it to help bring up compression on a low cylinder.
My motors don't like to be tilted at all when starting.
I had a problem with one of my motors a long time ago.
It would start great in the drive.Put it in the water it was vey difficult to start.Even had to use starting fluid which is a BIG NO,NO.
One time we were going out and it did the usual trick of not starting.
I had it tilted all the way up and hit the key and choke and it fired.Shut it off right away and lowered it and it started right away.
So for a while that's how I started it.
Eventually I remove the carbs and reset the floats.That solved my problem .Everyonce in a while I had to use the tilt trick.
Something about the floats sticking and breaking loose and allowing fuel into the cylinders.
Good luck.

Thanks,

I just read this and I doubt sticking floats is the problem as my fuel system drains back to the tank over a months time at least, don't really know how soon it does it. So, when it's time to use it I always have to do half a dozen or so pumps to get the bulb firm.

On Sea Foam, I used to never use it till I joined this board back in 04/05 time frame. Have used it ever since and swear by it. Unlike starting fluid it was said to be developed for OMC years back and contain lubricating oil and alcohol and naptha. You can light off with it sprayed in the carb.

Going to close this and add current info.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

Ok you guys. Going fishing tomorrow, so I thought I'd "test the water". Boat has been sitting in the garage for about a month. Put the muffs on, water on, tilted to vertical, pumped up, waited a couple of minutes, fast idle all the way up, key on, pushed in for about 5 seconds as told to do on both counts, nothing. #2 identical process, nothing. #3 after about 5 seconds of cranking she lit off and I was able to control it. While she was warming up and still running a little lean (trying to die on me) I pushed the key in and held it. Sure enough, after a few seconds what started out to be rpm improvement turned to be rpm decrease. Releasing the key and it recovered.

Sooooo, I was in fact flooding it with my 30 second to 1 minute priming.

I doubt that on the water things will be difference because the only difference will be back pressure and it has to light off to have that and it wasn't even lighting off. So, I am pretty sure I'm good to go.

So thanks again and I thank myself too for listening to and heeding the advice I ask for instead of making excuses as I did before that I had the right answer all along......well obviously I didn't or I wouldn't have had the problem and had to come on here and get some professional advice. Grin!

Mark

 

[phebus1]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

I have found the best way to start mine is to push key in for about five seconds and then crank it over with the key still pressed in until it starts. If it fires but then dies, I just start it again without pushing in the key and activating the enrichener.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

I have found the best way to start mine is to push key in for about five seconds and then crank it over with the key still pressed in until it starts. If it fires but then dies, I just start it again without pushing in the key and activating the enrichener.

I keep the key pushed in while cranking. If what I am doing doesn't work, will try your suggestion. Thanks for taking the time to help me.

Mark

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

Today went fishing. Vert tilt on the engine, primed bulb, pumped up good and tight. Batteries 12.75 volts....hot. Tried to start initially (engine spinning up really good) with just fast idle for a few seconds. Then did about a 5 second prime and after a few seconds it lit off. Great. Got her settled down which was pretty quick considering past experiences and backed off trailer and moved about the no wake zone and everything was great. Picked up the sweetie, motored out to the buoys and did a moderate hole shot....nice and smooth. Got her fixed....WOW.

Fished and putted around for awhile and decided to do a WOT run from one end of this little lake to the other; about 2 miles. Engine was stellar for most of the trip, then it just started shutting down. I headed for the dock as it started to drop rpms and there did some looking at things and testing. Finally it wouldn't run at all. This isn't helping to solve the problem, but it could give you some info that may help you one day.

Got it home and started looking. Since I did that 7k+ rpm runaway a couple of months ago, I thought that I may have ruptured a diaphragm in my fuel pump so I started there. I found these little semi-soft pieces of something I couldn't identify, sorta of a caramel color. I had some fuel containing Sea Foam I had pumped into a container (inlet to the pump to see what was in the line) with some of this stuff and it seemed to be dissolving in the gas.

Opening the fuel pump the diaphragms were in great shape but one of the disc valves had a V shape on one side and obviously couldn't seal when it was supposed to.....looking back I just assume some of this crud got in there. Pump housing had a lot of 1/8" pieces of this stuff in it.

I had recently installed a new fuel filter and took it out. Sawed in open and it was full of the stuff.

Backed up the fuel line and it was packed with it, before and after the squeeze bulb.

Went to the tank made from either plastic or blown glass....looks like molded plastic, which appears to be a tan/light caramel color and the inside of it was much more caramel colored than the outside of it. Upon taking a sample of the interior, I found the source of the stuff. There was a screen on the inlet of the output pipe that was clear, no stuff stuck in it, but it may have a hole in it allowing the stuff out. The fuel line is gray silicon OEM Quicksilver 503-11 or something like that with the OEM QK bulb, factory metallic clamps. Can't see that being the cause. The fuel in the tank was crystal clear and no signs of any varnish, water or any other contaminants in the tank.

In short, since I have been using Sea Foam since '05, and since Ethanol hasn't been used around here but 2-3 years, I assume that I am the victim of the Ethanol eating up another plastic/glass fuel tank.....sooo

This windy, but I'm sure it can help you trouble shoot one day.

Since the filter stopped the junk, I am not going to mess with my carbs till I get all this cleaned up. The carbs seem to be doing fine as they are.

I'm going to get on here and get some new parts: fuel pump, filter, hose/bulb new fuel tank and start over.

That's it. Will post in a couple of weeks when I get it all cleaned up.

Thanks and again hope this may help you some day.

UPDATE:

Inspected the tank again. Tank is a Moeller Crosslink Polyethylene and their site said it has been tested against blended fuels, model no 22-20. The screen strainer on the bottom of the pickup/outlet tube is intact so there is no way those large particles could have come from the tank. I took a wooden paint stir stick and scraped the bottom and nothing came off. So I guess the tank is ok after all.....great saved $200 there.

I cut the hose off the tank, which is the gray silicone Mercury Marine with a number having a dozen characters and another dozen spaces. I started cutting it into pieces and the thing was packed with this stuff and the little pieces were shaped in the form of a 5/16 tube which is the ID of the fuel line.

So I am baffled as to what this is and how it got there.

Mark

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

This is getting long but hopefully the contents will help someone with a similar problem.

Was in town today picking up most of my parts at a local marine dealer. Real customer service there. As I was purchasing my parts I was talking with the sales person and was informed that they are having a lot of problems with ethanol fuel degradation of fuel lines.

So, on the way home I stop by 3 auto parts stores looking for for fuel lines that auto parts stores regularly stock in rolls (cut off what you want) and one told me about the green tint to the black hose that is rated for ethanol; but he didn't have it nor did the other two. So here are these XXXXX selling a known by them (because I asked them) to be an inferior product and didn't stock the compatible hoses.

So I am replumbing with my vinyl tubing which is clear and I can see through it so that if it starts getting crudded up I can detect it and do something about it before I ruin another fuel pump. I pulled the hose up on the www and it is what you buy at Lowes, rated for 50 psig pressure (would see about 5# max at the outlet of the squeeze bulb if it saw that) rated for all kinds of stuff including chemicals, alcohol, hydrocarbons and all. Well alcohol and hydrocarbons sounds like ethanol gasoline to me, so we'll see what happens. Beins I can see through it, if any degradation starts to occurring, I can do something about it before it becomes a problem.

HTH someone.

Mark

 

[crappiejig]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

Mark,you have found degradation of your quicksilver fuel hose.This is quite common on the grey hose especially.I had the same symptoms and your description of the caramel colored tubular pieces is dead on.I replaced my oem grey quicksilver hose (5/16) which was the original hose on my 2000 crestliner cx1754.When I cut it lengthwise I could not believe my eyes.I had run some seafoam thru it recently which im sure helped the disbonding of the hose.This is a known problem with this hose.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

Mark,you have found degradation of your quicksilver fuel hose.This is quite common on the grey hose especially.I had the same symptoms and your description of the caramel colored tubular pieces is dead on.I replaced my oem grey quicksilver hose (5/16) which was the original hose on my 2000 crestliner cx1754.When I cut it lengthwise I could not believe my eyes.I had run some seafoam thru it recently which im sure helped the disbonding of the hose.This is a known problem with this hose.

Well thank you sir. I am a cause and effect guy, things are caused, don't just happen. With a clean fuel tank and contents, and nothing but the hose and a bulb between the tank and the fuel pump, it seemed that it had to be the hose.

But the hose is slick and appears to be made of Silicon which I would have expected to resist deterioration better than say Neoprene. The particles were before and after the bulb and probably 4' of hose was almost completely clogged....don't know how enough fuel could get through to run the engine at WOT.....course, on my last outing it finally got clogged and, over the course of a few minutes, it just completely clogged and shut the engine down. Glad I headed for the dock when rpm's started to fall off as I had intended to go the opposite way. With the wind we had that day, getting back to the launch would have been a real bear.

Anyway, the hose is gone, I have new hose which is clear and I can see through it, new bulb, new fuel filter, fuel pump parts will be in first of next week and I am good to go.

Thanks again for your reply.
Mark

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Faztbullet and jerryjerry05 Question for you guys.

I was just surfing the "Non-repair Outboard Discussions" Forum and the first Sticky by Faztbullet concerning "Ethanol Myths" caught my eye. Scrolling down to the last paragraph of "Myth #2" there is mention of ethanol combining with some of the additives in gasoline and forming a gooey substance.

Since I inspected the inside of my fuel line, which seemed to be gray silicon, and could not detect any difference between the surfaces of either inner or outer hose, I assumed that the hose did not in fact degrade. I had the caramel colored foreign material and I really didn't know what or where.

I think this explains it and makes sense. Now as to why it only occurred in the fuel line and components made their way into the engine, is beyond me. Didn't understand why the tank didn't have it also.

Possible explanation would be the addition of air since my check valve on the fuel pump was defective and allowed the fuel to drain back into the tank when not in use. To drain back, it had to be replaced in the line with air. So, apparently something about the chemistry of the air reacting with the fuel made the goo. Course if that were the case, why wasn't the tank full of it too? Possibly, since I didn't use the boat very often, it had time for the fuel to dry out in the line whereas the tank remained partially filled.

Great. At least I think I have an answer that I can live with.

Mark