FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

[phineas]

Hi i have a '58 18hp FD-12 # 262824 johnson in holiday bronze, with an evinrude lower unit, in blue, i have the origional LU, but it is missing something to do with the part that shifts, i can and will use it like this, but my question is, can i take the missing part out of the 'rude LU and put it in the one that matches the motor. This motor is super clean and i want to paint the hood and get decals , the rest of the motor looks like new, i only have spark on the lower cly, so i will have to replace the coils likely, should i replace the points even if they look good and condensers, or should i try the coils first? I have 105 and 103 psi on the clys. i have not had the fly wheel off yet.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

What part are you changing over? If it is a clutch, gear, or pinion gear, I'd leave it alone, as it is by far better to have a matched set. If your 'rude lower unit doesn't leak, I'd most definitely just repaint it hol. bronze at the same time to match the rest. Don't try to sand off the paint as its easier to get the new paint to stick to old paint rather than bare aluminum (just my opinion). Of course, I think you'd be o.k. to just take all of the gear set, clutch, etc. out of the 'rude lower unit and put them in the johnson lower unit. You might even check the drive shafts and decide which one has the best seal surface for the drive shaft seal below the water pump, since they are sometimes grooved badly. But keep the gear set together. I'd also replace the coils, plug wires, condensors, and points at the same time and you'll have a worry free motor. I have been cheap in the past and just found a plug wire today that was broken inside the insulation, causing me to almost rebuild the ignition that I'd just redone 2 days ago in order to try to find the problem. So I think I'll be buying some plug wires for some of mine. After all, the wires do have to flex everytime you throttle up or down. Condensors and points are cheap.
You're wise to fix it up--that is a beautiful motor and one of my favorites. I wish I owned one!
How about posting a pic when you finish it!
Good luck,
JBJ

 

[phineas]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

i am not sure what is missing as i have not taken the one that is on the motor apart to see, i only have opened the spare LU , the origional one. The fellow who gave it to me said it wouldn't shift and that is why he put the evinrude LU on the motor, i put oil in the one on the motor and it seems to leak oil at the joint where the 2 halves fit together, not a lot but some, on the one i took apart there is a rubber gasket between the two halves, fits in a groove. i noticed that there is a small cosmetic difference in the shape of the cavitation plates. i should just run it the way it is , as , i likely will never part with the motor , but i thought it would be neat to make it look like new, it is going on a '59 feathercraft ski-bo till i find a bigger motor for it. Once i get something i sorta just add it to my growing pile, i never seem to be able to part with stuff. When i croak my kids are gonna have a time sorting through all of this stuff hahhaha

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

Resealing that lower unit is a chore...difficulty level of about 7 if you've never done one before. If it were mine and it were going to be a daily driver, so to speak, I'd keep the Evinrude lower unit on the outboard, repaint it to match the Johnson if you like, and drain the hypoid oil out of the lower unit. Replace the oil with Lubriplate 105 white engine grease...that was the lube used on direct drive, non-shift outboards older than your 18 hp. Some folks will slam me for recommending this, but the Lubriplate won't emulsify/liquify with water like the hypoid oil...it's a non-displacement grease. An old outboard designer/engineer told me it's okay to use in shift outboards made in the 50's...good enough for me. That will keep it useable until you get brave enough to tackle repairing/resealing the Johnson lower unit, which you can use with oil and keep the Evinrude as a back up. If you don't have spark, pull the flywheel (use a harmonic balancer puller from the auto parts store) and check/clean/re-gap the points. If the coils are bad it will be real obvious...cracks galore or hunks of the outer coat missing. If you have a hard time finding Holiday Bronze paint, Duplicolor's GM Cayenne Red auto paint is a good match...not exact, but real close. A local graphics/sign shop can make the decals in peel-n-stick vinyl if you provide a photo and measurements of the old ones...probably for less than $70. Yes, been there, done that...my pride and joy is a 57 Johnson FD-11 18 hp that I restored top to bottom. Next mod is to lengthen the leg so it will fit my new/old boat with 20-inch transom. Good luck with yours.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

The answer is yes that you can quite probably swap the part out you want but it's a lot easier to paint the working LU as stated above. Try nymarine.ca as they make the paint and decals to match.

I have many 18's and 2 FD-12's and they're great engines. The LU's are the same for close to 20 years (from 10hp to 18hp to 20hp to 25hp) so parts are not that hard to find unlike the '58 10hp where they smaller and cheaper and harder to find.

That's great you're putting it on a feathercraft, I've been looking for one of those also for my engines to sit on

 

[jbjennings]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

Hey Steve,
I don't remember there being any difference in shape of the cavitation plate on the '58 johnson and evinrude or any part of the lower unit. I thought they were identical. As a matter of fact, I have a '58 evinrude and its lower is the same as my '57 johnson. Do you have any ideas why his aren't identical? Does he have a much newer evinrude lower unit like from the early 60's?

Phineas,
If your lower unit leaks oil out, it's almost positively leaking water in... that's a no-no. I'd consider at least playing with getting the seals out of your crappy johnson lower unit, and if you are able to do that, putting in new seals is VERY easy. I'd then either take the gears out of the 'rude lower unit or reseal the evinrude. I don't have near the experience as McCalavy or Samott, but I was able to do it on mine. Yes, it is a PITA, but doable. You'll just have a few questions like everyone else but we'll be happy to answer them. Stay away from hammers when you're working on those lower units!

Also, how 'bout a pic of that feather craft and your motor. I'd like to have one, too, but there aren't many around.
Good luck,
JBJ

 

[phineas]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

Hi fellows, sorry to take so long to get back to you, i am a gardener and is busy time for me right now. I was talking to the fellow i got the motor from and he told me that it is a LU from a 25 hp evinrude not an 18 so maybe that is why the cavitation plate is more squarish than oval. I am trying to get the flywheel off and have a harmonic balance puller on but it doesn't seem to want to come off easily, i have some wd-40 on it under pressure, for a day or so. i am making a tool to hold the flywheel still with a strap. But in the meantime i was able to look through the hole and both points look very clean and the coils are solid with no cracks , or any sign of corrosion at all, of course i need to get the flywheel off to have a good look. The one that has no spark, the wire had some tape on it, i suspect that somewhere that may be the problem. Could a coil be bad and still look good? Should i give a whack on the top of the puller ? thanks,

 

[jbjennings]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

Howdy,
Your coil could be bad but look good. You could also have a short in your wire and it's arcing. As likely too, is the surface of the points could be a little burnt and that will keep it from firing. You can't tell unless you take the pts. off. I hear even a fingerprint on the points is not good. I'd give the center bolt a rap with a hammer, but don't do it too hard or you could ruin your crankshaft or bearings. As a last resort, you could try to warm up the flywheel and get it to expand so it will slip off the shaft but don't get it hot as that will ruin your magnets or warp it so that it's no good anymore. Also, I don't think you can change out the lower unit parts on a newer l.u. like you have.
Good luck,
JBJ

 

[phineas]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

Yippee success!! a sharp crack on the nut on the puller did it, and underneath i see my trouble , the coil leading to the upper cly, was cracked underneath, the other had been replaced, i am off to the local shop a minute down the road, see ya soon

 

[phineas]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

20$ for a new coil and that was about 1/2 price, is that expensive?? anyways put it on and another plug wire still no spark on the upper cly. i guess i will try a new condenser next, the points look like new, does any one have the part # off hand for the "O" rings in the connector??

 

[samo_ott]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

$20 for a coil is a good price. They run around $35 new here from OMC. Strange it did not fix it up but it should be an easy problem as the systems are very simple. The 2 sides are also identical. Make sure they are that way. Check the complete wiring path, it will be something easy probably. Clean the points.

What O rings in which connector? The fuel line?

 

[jbjennings]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

You might try switching condensers and see if that gives you spark on the top cylinder. I haven't found the condensers bad too often, but it does happen. Are your points set right, clean clean clean?
just an idea,
JBJ

 

[samo_ott]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

I still always remember my auto teacher in high school saying the condensers never go and it's a big scam to always replace them when tuning up a car! Not sure how they differ from auto to marine though... If at all... Just a thought...

 

[phineas]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

Hi guys thanks for so much info, i switched condensers, no change, still no spark upper cly, so then i thought lets put the new coil on the side that was working, but the new coil has a screw in connector to the spark plug wire and i don't have enough plug wire to do that so i have taken off the plate the whole mess is attached to (coils , condenser,etc.) and that is where it is at this time, i have some plug wires off of another newer motor, which i am cutting to fit. is it possible to have a bad NEW coil, it is a sierra 18-5181 , i see nothing else wrong

i looked at a similar LU today and i see the part that my origional is missing , the linkage to the clutch dog , and i looked closely at mine and noticed the clutch dog is chewed up on one side and the gear is chewed up on the corresponding side, the gear closest to the front of the housing, he said it kept jumping out of gear , hence the 'rude lower unit, which he states was off of a 25 hp, i am hoping to gain a load of experience as well as a nice usable motor for my boat(s), i have some more projects , i have 2,, 22hp mercs with the auto tranny waiting to be worked on, a '59 mark 28A and a '60 merc 200, and i just saw another identical merc 200 today that i am thinking of gathering, i am getting carried away , i used to just have kayaks and canoes , till i got my feathercraft , now i want motors as old as it is and i am , for crying out loud,,, oh and i am still looking for "O" rings for the fuel line connector, does NAPPA have them or sierra? i found one, part # if any one has it handy, i got a prop today, whoo hoo,, thanks i love this place

 

[jbjennings]

Re: FD-12 18hp with 'rude LU

call the guy at laingsoutboards.com. he is helpful, ships cheap and fast, and is an overall good guy to deal with. You'll get faster service if you call rather than email from my experience. I was given this advice a few months ago and am glad I got it. He'll have what you need.
Keep an eye out for a gear set or lower unit on ebay. If you're patient, you can usually get a lower for around 60 bucks including shipping. I have. I have gotten 2 good motors and a lower unit from a seller named "somethinggolden". You might keep that in mind if he has something come up you need. You can expect to have to reseal a used lower unit, by the way.
Good luck,
JBJ