Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

Phoenixfirewalker

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
94
Im looking for a used engine and am wondering which is better
also was told that force and mariner and chrysler are the same exact motor
is this true? doesnt force really suck? if so do mariners suck?
I know Chrysler cars suck! but how about the marine motors are they good?

this is all stuff overheard Im seeking the truth!

tell me about this am very courious!!!!

help!
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,072
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

Chrysler cars and outboards are different companies.Force was Chrysler.Mariner is a cross of Mercury/Yamaha.
I have had a pair of 88/85hp Forces and have had almost no problems for 20 years.I just wore them out.I removed them and they were still running.
I replaced the head gasket on 1 and NEVER had to touch the lower unit except the impellers.
Some motors suck right out of the box,Merc/Honda/Yamaha etc.Force are no better or worse than other motors.J
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

Speaking as a Chrysler/Force enthusiast: If you know that Chrysler cars suck, then stay away from Chrysler or Force outboards. You are already pre-disposed to complain about them and will never be satisfied, even if you only experience minor problems.


Just so you know: In the 50s, West Bend was a well respected outboard manufacturer. In the early 60s, Chrysler was looking for a marine marque and bought them and Lone Star boats. They manufactured tem with almost no major changes until the lat 70s, then started to re-engineer the midleg and lower units on the big engines. They also came up with a completely new desigh=n for several mid sized engines (55, 60, 65 HP).

When Chrysler got into trouble in the early 80s, the feds bailed them out but one condition was that they divest anything other than auto business. At this time AMF Brunswick bought the Chrysler engine line and rebadged them with no changes as FORCE by US Marine.

Later, Mercury bought AMF or AMF bought Mercury and the Force badge was manufactured by mercury with engineering changes--some good, some not so good.

Mariner is the entry level Mercury marine engine and is different than the Force by Mercury engines.
 

Phoenixfirewalker

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
94
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

NOT predisponed at all just very analitic and need to hear the truth behind the myth. I did not mention but I also hear a lot of good about these FORCE engines.
anything else I should Know? please, I really appreciate all the history and personal experience stories.

I've been boating for 15yrs and never really cared about all of this, now im even looking to take classes on 2cycle engines :)

all of the sudden im super information thirsty. i want to based my desisions on facts and not myth.
so keep em coming
thanks again
 

Phoenixfirewalker

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
94
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

is it true that Force horse power is measured at the head and that other companies measure HP at the prop?
if so pors and cons?
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

Force engines are no longer made, but parts are still available. IF you are willing to do your homework and learn how and why certain procedures are performed, AND if you are willing to do your own work, a Chrysler or Force engine up to the late 1980s and early 1990s will be an excellent value. They are inexpensive to buy, inexpensive to repair, and easy to work on.

If you do the work yourself, and do it correctly, and if you do the basic maintenance and keep oil in your fuel mix, they may very well run forever.

Understand that they are very old school design and will not give the same performance as, say, an equally rated Merc.

If you accept that, then you will be satisfied with the purchase of one.

HOWEVER: No matter what you buy, ASSUME that everything that can be wrong or out of adjustment is. You would be surprised at some of the things I have seen done to these engines. Before you ever even consider starting a used engine, set everything back to factory specs. Therefore a good manual is a must have. Factory is best, Clymers is acceptable.

Good example: Fellow brought me a 1990 90HP Force to get ready for his repower. he bought it cheap, but it was missiing control box, cables, battery cables, and wiring cable. Starter was filled with black water and non functional. Replaced them then checked carbs. They looked in excellent condition but the low speed needles were set incorrectly. One carb had a bent float pin which caused float to stick, float level was too high on one carb, and all three were not properly synchronized. Choke solenoid was improperly set and chokes would not fully close. P.O. said--INSISTED-- that the engine ran. Yeah! If you could have started it, it may have run, but not well.

However, the engine has excellent compression and beautiful spark on all three plugs. When I get done with it, it will fire on the first turn and run like a cat with its tail on fire.
 

Phoenixfirewalker

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
94
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

so, its simple to work on, reliable and cheap?
it is sounding like music to my ears
 

Dave K.

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
437
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

Hello P-F-W, 4 yrs ago I bought my first boat; 16' 84 Bayliner Capri w/ 85 Force, same year. Although boating for many years & always willing to turn a wrench, I was at first against buying this set up because of that infamous "Bad Rep" Force motors have. However & like Frank said many posts ago, Force motors are like the girl in school who had the rep for being "easy" although nothing "ever" happened!

Real pleased w/ this motor Because: Runs great, easy to work on & cheap to maintain for ex: impeller, rectifier (radio shacks model, 6 bucks) plug tips, new squeeze ball, new plugs (1 set a year) & I'm sure I forgot something else but it must of been cheap too or I'd remember. Maybe a 100 bucks total in 4 yrs...Not Bad Huh!

If you find one in good shape, Buy it & then Maintain it...might not be a merc or johnny-rude but it will get you back to the dock.
 

bustermin

Banned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
315
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

in my opinion Chrysler/Force Outboards are easy to work on and easy to diagnose problems, and if you are just learning outboard repair they are perfect for learning the basics.
 

jimbarrt

Cadet
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
19
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

Speaking as a Chrysler/Force enthusiast: If you know that Chrysler cars suck, then stay away from Chrysler or Force outboards. You are already pre-disposed to complain about them and will never be satisfied, even if you only experience minor problems.


Just so you know: In the 50s, West Bend was a well respected outboard manufacturer. In the early 60s, Chrysler was looking for a marine marque and bought them and Lone Star boats. They manufactured tem with almost no major changes until the lat 70s, then started to re-engineer the midleg and lower units on the big engines. They also came up with a completely new desigh=n for several mid sized engines (55, 60, 65 HP).

When Chrysler got into trouble in the early 80s, the feds bailed them out but one condition was that they divest anything other than auto business. At this time AMF Brunswick bought the Chrysler engine line and rebadged them with no changes as FORCE by US Marine.

Later, Mercury bought AMF or AMF bought Mercury and the Force badge was manufactured by mercury with engineering changes--some good, some not so good.

Mariner is the entry level Mercury marine engine and is different than the Force by Mercury engines.

Hello, what are the excact years things changed from Chrysler based to Merc. based? I have an 1989 85 hp 3 cyl force that needs work. I found a parts motor, its from "the mid 80's" [only info I have so far]. But when I do find out, I wanna know if I can use it. Thanks, jim
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Force vs. Chrysler vs. Mariner

From 1979 to 1999, Chrysler and Force engines were all essentially the same. The 1990 model year had a water pump by mercury and a two piece drive shaft but other than that, the engine was still essentially the same. Around 1994 merc started making more changes, but until the engines were discontinued, the blocks were almost unchanged for the 4 culinder blocks. The exception was the three cylinder 70 and 75 which were re designed.

After about 1994, (I think) the splines on the crankshaft and driveshaft were changed and some year around then the midleg and lower unit were changed to Mercury design.
 
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