Four Wins Volvo Penta stiff steering

[highpowerdad]

So, my 2005 Four Winns 190H with 5.0 GXI Volvo motor is having some stiff steering issues. I just replace the helm and cable; the steering had a lot of play. Everything is "tight" now, BUT the steering seems kind of stiff. the part I put is Dometic SHT91523, and I replace the cable and helm, it was a remove and replace, as the 20-year-old parts were the same... at least from a fit and function. It is a tilt steering wheel

Anyway, now it seems very stiff to turn, and I am only getting 2 turns lock to lock, I thought I used to get 3? I lubricated the rod end and the hydraulic piston on the motor end, it seems to maybe help, for a minute, maybe not, so really can't tell. I am going to disconnect the cable from the drive tomorrow and see if it is obvious or not.

MY QUESTION, to move the outdrive from side to side, when the steering cable was disconnected (installing the new cable) seemed VERY difficult. (I actually couldn't move it). Is there something in the pivot or transom or sterndrive end that needs to be greased or checked, where the transom plate and out drive are pinned together? I seem to remember being able to move the outdrive back and forth by hand, say a few years ago, but now I couldn't even budge it....

Will report back tomorrow when I have the cable disconnected
Thanks,
Scott R
Orlando, Fl

 

[Lpgc]

Watching this thread because my 1995 Four Winns with Volvo/OMC Cobra/Ford 5.0 has play in the steering and this is a similar subject. It isn't stiff to turn but if I steer one way I have to turn it some distance the other way before it steers the drive moves the other way, I don't know if this play is at the steering wheel end or at the rear end but I think it's at the rear end, so perhaps due to something like a worn pin that the steering connects to...?

 

[highpowerdad]

I was just reading on another post from a couple of years ago that the "flats" on the part that is held when tightening the nut that holds the cable to the steering ram need to be vertical, is that true for the VP steering actuator and would it cause this problem? IF so, what does having the flats vertical do?

 

[Scott Danforth]

IF so, what does having the flats vertical do?

It aligns the pilot servo ports in the actuator to the internal passages that make the power steering actuator actually work

 

[Lou C]

So, my 2005 Four Winns 190H with 5.0 GXI Volvo motor is having some stiff steering issues. I just replace the helm and cable; the steering had a lot of play. Everything is "tight" now, BUT the steering seems kind of stiff. the part I put is Dometic SHT91523, and I replace the cable and helm, it was a remove and replace, as the 20-year-old parts were the same... at least from a fit and function. It is a tilt steering wheel

Anyway, now it seems very stiff to turn, and I am only getting 2 turns lock to lock, I thought I used to get 3? I lubricated the rod end and the hydraulic piston on the motor end, it seems to maybe help, for a minute, maybe not, so really can't tell. I am going to disconnect the cable from the drive tomorrow and see if it is obvious or not.

MY QUESTION, to move the outdrive from side to side, when the steering cable was disconnected (installing the new cable) seemed VERY difficult. (I actually couldn't move it). Is there something in the pivot or transom or sterndrive end that needs to be greased or checked, where the transom plate and out drive are pinned together? I seem to remember being able to move the outdrive back and forth by hand, say a few years ago, but now I couldn't even budge it....

Will report back tomorrow when I have the cable disconnected
Thanks,
Scott R
Orlando, Fl

With the steering cable disconnected you should be able to move the drive from side to side pretty easily, I can do that with my old ‘88 Cobra even with the steering cable connected. I’d think that the bushings in the gimble housing are getting stiff/seized.
However both the steering cable and steering actuator are connected to the clevis which is connected to & moves the steering arm, when you tested it was the steering actuator still connected? If so try again with it disconnected. I’m wondering if the actuator itself could be seized/jammed up inside.

 

[highpowerdad]

So, did some checkouts Saturday, for the Volvo, the tube in the actuator that the cable goes through has no ports or holes, it is just a tube, I disassembled the old unit I had set aside for a rebuild... but I made sure the flats were vertical anyway
So, the PS unit runs just fine with the cable disconnected, goes from one end to the other as I move the shuttle back and forth... but now I understand why there is always "play" in the steering wheel... it is built into the system, there will always be about 3/4" of play in the cable so the shuttle can be moved back and forth to engage the PS...I made sure the shuttle could move freely, one of the PS hoses was a little snug, so I will need to see if I can pull a little slack up to the back end. With the cable disconnected, the steering wheel moves pretty free, not great but pretty good. No bends or anything at the engine end of the cable, so all is good there, maybe I was just expecting too much out of a new cable and helm when the system is pretty clunky by design.
HOWEVER, I was down about 5oz of power steering fluid, not sure if that would be enough to slow the steering down or not. It does mean there is a leak somewhere, the actuator is new - only maybe 10 hours on it, and I don't see any leaks at the back. So, I need to look elsewhere. Where is the next common leak point, the cooler or the pump?
ALSO, I am going to look into the extreme cable and helm, I am not ready to go to Hydraulic, but maybe a better cable assembly will give me a little better feel at the wheel, I will open a new post asking about that...
Thanks
Scott R.

 

[highpowerdad]

to close out this thread, I ended up putting a ultraflex M90 cable, made a positive difference in easing up the initial force needed to move the helm, bends may have just been too tight for the other cable. also lubed the slide that that the cable moves back and fore. Noticed my steering fluid cooler is leaking though, wouldn't have expected that... next job on the list.

 

[Lou C]

Good that the cable fixed it. The cooler isn’t a bad job if you have access to it….

 

[Lpgc]

Hope it's OK to ask about my FourWinns steering on this thread? Mine is easy to turn but it seems like there's some play in it, e.g. if I turn the wheel left I can then turn the wheel maybe 30 degrees right without it adjusting the actual steering at all or vice/versa. If I feel the steering cable where it comes out of the steering wheel mechanism it seems it's moving the cable so where should I be looking for worn components in the engine bay?

Edit - 1996 Four Winns Sundowner 205 with OMC Cobra / Ford 302 engine which apparently has Volvo SX spec drive.

 

[Lou C]

The helm unit may be bad or the bushings in the transom mount (vertical ones)

 

[Lpgc]

The helm unit may be bad or the bushings in the transom mount (vertical ones)

Thanks Lou, only last year but it seems a long time since I looked it over, I remember seeing a pin on the steering mechanism at the rear but think I had a close look at that and it didn't seem bad, but I suppose it could be. How much play is there supposed to be at the pin? As said/implied I don't think there's play in the helm mechanism because I can feel the cable moving when I turn the steering.

 

[Lou C]

I’d have someone hold the outdrive steady while you turn the steering wheel this way you can feel of it’s in the helm unit under the dashboard. If so at this point I’d probably replace both the helm & the cable as both are probably original. If it’s not there then try doing the opposite, have someone hold the steering wheel steady while you try to move the outdrive from side to side. I have heard that the bushings in the pivot housing can wear causing this problem. Mine is all original (transom mount, cable & helm unit) I had to replace a leaky p/s actuator though. Mine has about 1” play at the wheel about the 1/4” at the outdrive.
Also I wonder if there can be wear happening where the steering arm bolts to the pivot housing (the part of the transom mount that the outdrive bolts onto).
I bought a complete transom mount from a freshwater region in the Midwest a few years ago, and I use this for spares. I took parts off of it when I had to rebuild my trim cylinders last year…..

 

[Lpgc]

Thanks again Lou, been a while since I looked at this, I should have another look.