from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

jinx

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9-year-old arrested for waving toy gun <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />MICHAEL C. FITZPATRICK , Morning Journal Writer 10/28/2003 <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />LORAIN -- A 9-year-old boy was arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed Saturday because he was waving a toy gun over his head while seated on a bench outside a store, according to a Lorain police report. <br /><br />His mother, Tamyka Saunders of Sheffield Lake, said her son, Thomas Clark Jr., told Lorain police when they approached him outside a Broadway business that the gun was a toy. An officer aimed his weapon at the boy's head, ordered him to the ground, handcuffed him and arrested him for juvenile delinquency by reason of inducing panic, according to the police report.<br /><br />Saunders, 28, was also charged with obstruction of justice and resisting arrest when she pleaded with police not to arrest her son and to give him a warning, according to a police report.<br /><br />''He doesn't deserve this. He is not a bad kid at all. That's what I was trying to explain to the officer. It's just not fair,'' Saunders said.<br /><br />Saunders was getting her hair done at the Northern Institute of Cosmetology on Broadway near Seventh Street when the incident began.<br /><br />Saunders said she and her son were spending the day together . Saunders said her son got his hair cut first, and then he went outside to play while waiting on her.<br /><br />A passer-by who saw the boy playing just before noon with a gun -- described by police as a black plastic toy gun -- called police, who responded to the scene and found the boy ''waving what appeared to be a black handgun above his head,'' according to a police report. The report said the gun was spray painted black and resembled a genuine gun.<br /><br />At that point, Officer Joe Novosielski confronted the boy at gunpoint, ordering him to drop the gun and then lie on the ground, the report said.<br /><br />Thomas, who his mother said has been diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, said he was frightened by the incident.<br /><br />Lorain police said Novosielski handled the situation properly.<br /><br />''Obviously, someone got scared and called the police. Nobody driving down the street could tell it was a toy gun, so that's where the panic comes in. We charge that to anyone doing that,'' Lt. Robert Poli said.<br /><br />''We're not going to tolerate anyone walking down the street, sitting on a bench ... if he's waving a gun around,'' Poli said. ''You don't know it's a toy gun.''<br /><br />Saunders said police were not even going to come inside the cosmetology institute to tell her they were arresting her son. She said she learned from another woman her son was being arrested. <br /><br />Saunders, wearing curlers in her hair, said she raced out to the police car to attempt to intervene on her son's behalf.<br /><br />''He (Novosielski) snatched me by the arm and cuffed me. People were just walking down the street shaking their heads. I did not cuss at him, and I did not yell at him, because I'm not that type of person. I feel I'm the one that was disrespected,'' Saunders said of her arrest.<br /><br />When informed her son was being arrested, Saunders attempted to pull her son away from the officer but moved away when told to, according to the report.<br /><br />Police said Saunders pleaded with them not to arrest her son and to ''just give him a warning,'' according to the report. She also told police her son ''was just playing'' and that he didn't point the gun at anyone before asking police, ''Don't you have anything better to do?''<br /><br />Saunders was eventually arrested after refusing to move away from the cruiser where her son had been placed, the report said. The officer told her to finish her business at the beauty salon and then come to the station to pick up her son, according to the report.<br /><br />She is free on $750 bond and is scheduled to appear in Lorain Municipal Court today. The report of Thomas' arrest was forwarded to the juvenile court system, according to the police report.<br /><br />Lorain County Prosecutor's Office spokesman Mark Hastings said the report had not been received yet.
 

KennyKenCan

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Hooray for the police!<br /><br />Booo to the Mom!<br /><br />As a parent, it is pretty obvious that if your child is playing with something that resembles a gun, he/she will be treated as if it were a real gun!<br /><br />Guns pointed at this youths head, handcuffs and anything else thats necessary until the situation is under control, should be normal procedure, until its under control .<br /><br />Arrest and prosecution of this child might be a little too agressive.<br /><br />Arrest of the parent, fully warranted!<br /><br />All she had to do was follow the officers instruction...but she did not, henceforth, she was correctly arrested.<br /><br />Just my opinion.
 

jinx

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Personally, I put this in the same category as suspending a student for a plastic knife to cut the food in the cafeteria.<br /><br />And, as a parent, don't try pointing a gun at my boys head. <br /><br />Enjoy reading the posts<br /><br />Jinx
 

KennyKenCan

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Hey jinx,<br /><br />If I was a police officer, and saw anyone, no matter their age, race or religion weilding something that looks like a gun, I would point a gun at his/her head until that subject puts said object down on the ground.<br /><br />Any other action by a police officer is suicide!<br /><br />The police in this case were not only protecting themselves, but everyone within shooting distance!<br /><br />Should this child been arrested, well thats very debatable.<br /><br />I think the child should not have been arrested, once the officers secured the situation, in this case, it became obvious that it was a toy, and a discusion with the boy as to what had just happened, most imperitive.<br /><br />Arresting this boy was a little over the top.<br /><br />The initial action of the police was warranted in my opinion.
 

samagee

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Personally the officer should have asked for the gun to be put down, and for the child to step away. This way the officer could have inspected the "gun". Then he could have just handed it to the mom to put away until they got home.<br /><br />That's just my 2 cents though.
 

ehenry

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

All that woman was doing was trying to protect her 9 year old. Any parent would. The police acted out of line. The story doesn't say if the child did what the officer asked him to do, it doesn't say if the officer was rough with the child. Lots of unanswered questions here. The police were wrong in they handled it. They should have asked the child where his mother was and they should have taken him to her.
 

JB

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

GOOD GRIEF!!!<br /><br />Sure glad I live in the boonies, and in Texas. The spread of hysterical paranoia in the nawth and cities scares heck out of me.<br /><br />I don't have enough guns. See my post for advice on what to add to my armory.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Well looking at it from the police's point of view.<br /><br />They/we do not know what is real and what isn't anymore, from a distance anyway.<br /><br />A 9 year old is as capable of shooting someone as a 30 year old is.<br /><br />Sure, I agree that the police officer may have over reacted to this, but at the time he could not tell if the gun was real or not.<br /><br />Now as for the mother, she should not have let the boy play with a "spray painted" toy gun in a public place and sure should not had let him go out onto a busy street by himself.<br /><br />She was wrong on 2 counts.<br /><br />But sometimes it does get carried away to much.<br />The boy should not have been arrested.
 

NOSLEEP

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

I think the police are trying to make a statement<br />on this one. At the child and the mothers expense.<br />Over reaction I think so....
 

gonfishn

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Any one from the Buckeye State knows that Cleveland has some pretty strange folks there..I read that to and just shook my head..
 

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Cleveland is a rough place. A Chef at the country club where I once worked had his son take his daughter in law and grandkids to the airport.<br />His son was 8 hours past due on getting back home. He got at call from Cleveland saying they found his son slumped over the steering wheel with a bullet through his head. He was found on the opposite side of town away from the airport. <br /><br />The grandkids and daughter in law did make their flight, so he did drop them off. It is unclear on how he ended up where he did.<br /><br />Police think he was forced at gunpoint to take the murderer where he needed to go from the airport and then shot him. No arrests, and no suspects. This happened about 8 years ago. :( <br /><br />With events like this happening, no wonder they respond and take no chances on any situation. Probably wouldn't have happened if the toy gun had the red tip on the end of the gun showing that it was a toy. But criminals have been known to paint orange/red on the tip of a real gun.<br /><br />I'm gonna watch the news tonight to find out what they have done to the boy and his mom......SS<br /><br />SS
 

JGREGORY

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Overreaction on the Cops part maybe. But,and I know I will get some rebuttals here, how is the kid going to learn any respect of guns if he can carry on this way with a toy. I know its a toy, but the next gun he finds may not be!. There is a very fuzzy line between behavior w/ a toy gun and that with a real one. Especially with someone that's only 9.
 

Topmason

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Can we say "ZERO TOLERANCE"?<br />I can! <br />If I caught one of my kids with something like that (spray painted gun) we'd be goin to the hospital to get my boot removed from his a$$!
 

tylerin

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

I see one side of the story, Possibility some welfare mom getting a free haircut w/ her hyperactive kid who should have been in school anyway just met Bufurd T Pussar
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

I'll bite. As an officer I feel that the cops were perfect in their initial response. Whenever they decided to jail the young guy, well that was too far. As far as mom goes its two sided. She should have been arrested for the actions she took, the cop was clearly in control and within reason here. On those same lines if the officer would have had better judgement she would not be in that situation.
 

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Lorain and Sheffield Lake are small towns west of Cleveland about 15 to 20 miles away. Decent communities. My ex wife and her family is from there. I know first hand that the cops don't give warnings there. They are serious in their job. With the wackos out there, I don't blame them. Since 9-11, I think the police are more alert everywhere that you may go......SS
 

Kilgore Trout

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

I have total respect for cops. But when they become badge heavy and reactionary ( like this cop aparently did) they loose all respect.<br /><br />Cops are people too. There are good cops, and yes there are bad cops.<br /><br />This case need to be fully investigated
 

bubbakat

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

well my 2 cents worth here<br /> Well for one thing no one knows what really happened her we weren't there. All we hear is a irate mother and the Medea spouting their insight.<br />which to me doesn't mean a hill of beans<br /> first off you don't arrest a 9 year old you take him or her into protective custody. I doubt that the officer pointed his weapon straight at the kid I would say he did have it at the ready position. His intent was to let child services find out what a 9 year old was doing outside a business un accompanied by an adult. There are a lot of variables that come into play here<br />
If I caught one of my kids with something like that (spray painted gun) we'd be going to the hospital to get my boot removed from his a$$! <br />
this says a whole lot of what every mom and dad ought to be practicing
 

tylerin

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

Lets turn this around, what if that 9 yr old boy was waving a real gun and the police acted non- challantly as if it were a toy and someone was killed. I'm sure that would be the cops fault too. Boy, hard for them to win. Err on the side of safety
 

bubbakat

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Re: from the Cleveland Ohio area...nonsense

so true tylern we are dammed if we do and be damed if we don't
 
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