fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

[keefallan]

I just spliced in a fuel separator into my brand new fuel line. The bulb used to pump up hard before and now it gets firm but I can still squeeze fuel. Before, it would get to a point where I could not even push any more fuel thru it. today was my first day breaking in my new powerhead on the river but the bulb kept running out of fuel. I am running portable tanks(2...a 6 gal and a 12 gal) and swapped over when The one ran down. I thought it was the tank but it did the same with the other too. The bulb ran dry while running and had a heck of a time getting fuel to suck back into the motor on the last one. Thankfully I was at the ramp.......
Is the primer bulb bad? Or is it the separator? Both are new!!!! IT is not an issue with the tanks getting air. i had the valves open.
Any advice on this one? I am going to remove the water separator out of the equation already but I want to hear from others too.......

Thanks,
Keith

 

[wilde1j]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

What line ID and what motor? Are you sure you got the inlet/outlet connected correctly on the filter?

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

If your running a portable tank, id lose the water separator. There is no need for it. The reason for the separator is if you get water in the tank, with a portable tank you can just pour out any water that is in the tank.

 

[keefallan]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

Thanks for the replies. I'll keep you posted as to what I find. By the way, I'm running 3/8 fuel line on an 1985 johnson 150 with dual fuel pumps like a pre- vro motor.

 

[ezeke]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

You should test the fuel system prior to the fuel pump using a vacuum gauge. If it exceeds 4 in Hg, your pumps cannot handle it properly.

You should eliminate redundant fuel filters. One good full sized water-separating outboard fuel filter is more than adequate.

Unless the primer bulb is branded by one of the major outboard manufacturers, don't trust it. All filters are not created equal.

If you don't have a vacuum switch warning on your fuel system you might want to consider adding one. Part #0394937.

 

[keefallan]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

I have removed the water separator out of the fuel line. I ran the motor on the muffs and checked the bulb while it was running. The bulb appears to stay harder, even while revving it up a couple of times(to see if it would suck the bulb dry). I let the motor sit for an hour or two and checked the bulb: it was definately firm!! I'm not 100% convinced until I run it harder on the river but it looks promising.

I might be off base on this next one, but I would think the 2 fuel pump setup is almost bulletproof as far as one pulling fuel from the tank and the second pulling from the first one! Anyone got any info for me about the 2 pump configuration? I am trying to understand every nut and bolt to this motor. The previous owner had removed the old vro system and installed this instead. I just want to hear some insight about the system.

 

[d.boat]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

First, I personally disagree that water sep. filter is not needed with portable tanks. How do you know if there's water in there that can be poured out? By rough running engine or one that won't run? I guess if all your running is on lakes and rivers where being broken down is a minimal hassle, that would be OK, but it's such an easy prevention to any potential water problem, I can't imagine why anyone would not have one. I've always run one (at least since the 80s), portable or built in tanks.

Second, I can't understand why a water separating filter would cause you problems with your fuel supply unless it its flow rate is not adequate, or it was mis-installed.

Could you give detailed information on exactly the filter you're using (especially the specs for flow rate, filtering spec. etc), and exactly where in your fuel line it's installed?

I've just never run into a problem and have run them on 4 or 5 different engines ranging from 70 hp to V8 I/O to 235 OB. So it's really surprising to me that you're having problems from just the water sep. filter.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

The bulb does not stay hard, so don't expect it to. It should not collapse, however. It's just lke another piece of hose once the motor starts.

 

[keefallan]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

My first response is about the separator. 1) it was installed after the primer bulb and mounted on the transom. The lines were installed in the right direction(according to the arrows on it). I noticed right away when I first cut this filter into the system, that I had a heck of a time getting fuel to pull out of the tank to prime the system. But when I was running the hose by itself, Fuel pulled from the tank after 4 or 5 squeezes. Obviously, I didn't think anything of this. I just thought it was because of the size of the separator.
This is the first separator that I have had an issue with. Like I said, I'm not 100% convinced it was the separator causing the problem entirely. When I go river test this thing again, I'm bringing another fuel line with me to change it out if I have to, and see if it changes things. I was running a separator on my 112 spl and had no issues with that one. It may just be my primer bulb. All I know is this: All the fuel was pulled out of my bulb with the engine running. The bulb did not go flat! This is just the simplest way for me to troubleshoot.

When I ran the motor today AFTER removing the separator, the bulb pumped rock hard, softened with the motor running, but never ran out of gas, and stayed relatively firm after the motor was shut down for an hour or more later.

I greatly appreciate everyones insight. Thank you all.....
I will post what I find when I go back to the water

Keith

I WILL put the separator back on if it proves not to be the culprit. Who knows, i may have to rebuild the fuel pumps. But, the motor never even hiccuped when I had the throttle all out! It just sucked all the gas out of the line. WHAT THE HECK?

 

[d.boat]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

My first response is about the separator. 1) it was installed after the primer bulb and mounted on the transom. The lines were installed in the right direction(according to the arrows on it).

I've heard that it isn't a problem, but every engine I've had and seen had the filter before the bulb. In other words, the bulb is near the engine, between the filter and the engine. I seem to recall seeing it specified that way in some Racor instructions I read, but I can't promise that. But, that might be a problem.

I still wonder if the water sep. filter has adequate flow rate for your engine. What is the GPH of your filter?

With your 150 which would pull about 15 gph at wide open, I would think a 30 GPH filter would be good. I think the filter I use with my 200 is 60 GPH. It's one of the standard Racor drain bowl types, OMC fittings.

But if the engine is sucking the bulb flat, wouldn't that indicate something restricting upstream (further toward the tank or in the tank) rather than down stream (further toward the engine)?

 

[roncoop75]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

My first response is about the separator. 1) it was installed after the primer bulb and mounted on the transom.

As pointed out in the post above, install the ball AFTER the separator.

Didn't the instructions that came with the separator mention that? Mine did and it seems to be working fine that way. It should be pretty easy to swap a few lines to test it.

 

[keefallan]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

That very well could be it men!!! The separator was brand new in a box. It had been sitting in my garage for years(4 or 5). My dad gave it to me cause he never did anything with it. I never put it on my other boat because it already had one! And of course, there were no instructions with it!!! The last one I had put on was over 15 years ago!!! Sooooooooooo........don't think me tooo dumb if I can't remember how to install one properly after that many years!!!!LOL

Thanks guys, I'll let you know the outcome after testing. But I'm sure that's it.

Keith

 

[dingbat]

Re: fuel/water separator affecting primer bulb?

I seem to recall seeing it specified that way in some Racor instructions I read, but I can't promise that. But, that might be a problem.

You are correct. It's in the Racor Installation manual.