Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

[loose rivet]

I picked up two super clean 1989 Sears Gamefisher 15hp motors at a flea market the other day.
Neither one runs, but both look like brand new and came with the original manuals and hang tags from when they were sold. There is no paint loss on the prop or skeg on either motor and the spark plugs look new.
Neither has any spark. Both feel like they have decent compression compared to my other motors but when I check them with my Snap On compression gauge designed for motor cycles, I get only 95 PSI on all cylinders.
I looked inside with a bore scope and the cylinder walls look perfect, they still have a nice crosshatch pattern showing and no sign of an upper ridge, the cylinder and piston top are spot clean as well. I shot some light oil in each hole before doing the compression test, if I shoot some heavier motor oil in each cylinder I get 100 psi.
Both appear to have dead coils, there is no spark at all. Before I spend any real money on these, does the compression readings I'm seeing sound normal? I see no signs of overheating, no signs of scoring, and from what I can see, there's no sign that either one ever had fuel in the carb, at least I can't smell any signs of gasoline anywhere.
I've got next to nothing in them right now, less than $50. The price certainly has me a bit suspicious as to why they were so cheap but the seller was selling antique camera gear and said they both belonged to an in-law who passed away a few years ago.
When I've tested other rope start motors I get closer to 125 psi or so, these are under 100. What should I be seeing? Does it sound like maybe they sat too long and have stuck rings or something? I've got a newer Chrysler 20hp that gives me 145 psi on the same gauge, I was expecting something closer to that reading.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I would see if you can find a manual for them as this will give you the compression they should be, if they have been sitting for ages and hardly started, it could be rings sticking. So your model would either be 225.581501 or 225.581491. If they are all 95psi with no variance with the others, it might still run fine.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

What strikes me as odd is that these 'feel' like they have more compression than my other motors, yet the gauge reads lower?
They don't appear to have been badly stored and have zero signs of rust. I pulled the carb off the one and it looks brand new, not even a sign of gas or any corrosion.
I'm looking at around $500 in parts to buy two new ignition systems for these, which is fine if they turn out to be healthy motors, but not if they're junk. I even went and borrowed another compression gauge to make sure mine wasn't giving me a false reading and got the same numbers. What gets me is that adding oil really don't bring the numbers up much, if I do that on an OMC or Mercury motor I'd add 30-40 psi to the readings. Both motors still have hang tags from Sears on the handles, both have plastic caps over the fuel tank fittings with a hang tag warning that 'This motor requires special two stroke fuel". As do both fuel tanks.
Unless someone went through a lot of trouble to make them look like never used, new old stock motors, I'd say these were never run or even wet. Besides, for the $50 I paid for the two, including the tanks, original fuel hoses, four paddles, and four clamp on seats for a jon boat, I'd venture to bet these were bought and just sat. There was a boat but the boat was being used as a garden planter by the old woman who sold them to me.

Has anyone else ever tested one of these for compression?

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I would see if you can find a manual for them as this will give you the compression they should be, if they have been sitting for ages and hardly started, it could be rings sticking. So your model would either be 225.581501 or 225.581491. If they are all 95psi with no variance with the others, it might still run fine.

Ditto: I'd get a service manual before making any costly decisions.

 

[junkpile]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

The rings aren't likely stuck if those have never been run, especially if the cylinder walls look rust free.
I,ve got four of those motors ranging from 1986 to 1990, compression varies on a gauge between motors by 35 psi. Each motor has matching compression in each cylinder, but readings vary from 85 to 120 psi between motors. The funny part is that you can't feel the difference between even the lowest and highest compressor motor by hand and each motor runs and pushes my boat the same.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I've got a factory manual, it don't say anything about compression pressures, only that each cylinder should be within 10% of the other. While that's true, it tells me nothing about the motor's condition other than both cylinders are the same.
If I go by the manual, so long as both cylinders read the same, say 20 psi, it should be fine. That's worthless info to me.
The only real tell tale is to know what a known good motor reads in PSI. I used to have a 5hp OMC motor that had only about 65 psi and it ran fine, yet an older Mercury I had was shot when its compression got below about 80 psi.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I have an 88 7.5HP Gamefisher (same as yours, just de-tuned) and when I ran a compression test on it, I was shocked to see it around 50 PSI on each cylinder. But..... It runs like a champ! I wouldn't be too concerned over to compression numbers.

I had a coil die on my outboard and upgraded to the CDI ignition instead of trying to repair the BIM coil ignition, then waiting for the other coil to die. If you look around, you can pick up the CDI kit for for $150-200, think I paid $180 or so a couple years ago, (iBoat's price match). You may be able to scavenge a good set of coils between the 2 motors, so check for spark on all of the coils, on both outboards.

If you are going to turn over the engine with the sparkplug wires disconnected, ground out the sparkplug wires,,, or you could kill the BIM coils. At least, that's what I've heard.

Also, rebuild the fuel pump. Those 25 year old rubber parts were not ethanol resistant. They are probably dried out after 25 years anyway.

Good luck!

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

well, I'm jealous. It sounds like you've got two great parts motors, at a minimum -- for fifty bucks. Neither one set up. sounds like condition is good, based on appearance -- very popular hp.... I don't see how you can go wrong. Make sure of the year/model, and get model-specific manuals if you can, otherwise generic. Look for parts blow ups on the internet. Clean up the electricals and see if you can get spark. Maybe switch some components, like suggested. Super finds, in my opinion. Great projects!

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I pulled both flywheels, I don't really see anything to clean up, it all looks like new but no spark. I disconnected the kill switch, and still nothing. Both coils are under the flywheel. There is no spark, not even a tingle in any wire.
I was thinking that maybe I can just convert back to points as on the older Chrysler motors, it may not be ideal but it'll be a lot cheaper than forking over $400 for two CDI ignition kits.
Does anyone know if going back to points is even possible? Such as does the later motor have the ability to actuate points?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I thought the 89 was still a points engine. Been a long time since I worked on the electronic ignition of this small engine but as I remember the plate is the same so you can go back to points and condensers. If not, I know I had one that would not fire the electronics and I did not want to put money into it so I think I used the points carrier plate off an older Chrysler. You may need to do that. You will also need the cam. The cam simply slides over the crankshaft and is held in place by an elongated flywheel key. I don't believe they changed the crankshaft at the cam area.

Oh, yeah--If no one has mentioned it, 95 PSI is about normal for this size engine. Too high and you would have trouble pull starting it.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

was thinking points and condensers ("clean up" meaning cleaning up all connections, cleaning and regapping points, replacing magneto parts as needed). The idea of swapping out with an older Chrysler is appealing. I think the first order of business is to make sure what you have by running down the model numbers, then maybe doing some crosswalking with older Chryslers and picking up appropriate manuals. Think I would start with coils when troubleshooting ignition, wires, plugs and wire connections at plugs. Simple stuff first.

(see there is another post re. a poss. '89 Gamefisher 15, with pics. Is that what yours looks like?)

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

hey rivet -- my apologies. reread your posts, and you are looking at these with manual in hand. probably much further ahead in the game than I was thinking. I don't think you should be pessimistic based on compression readings. The standards aren't all that objective, given differences in equipment, testing methods, etc. The readings you discuss sound fine to me (assume not much variation between cylinders).

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

If I could find new coils or whatever upgrade kit that's available for these for say $300 for the pair, I'd do it, but any more than that and they're getting points off an old Chrysler or Force motor.
I see there's a few listed cheap on CL, both old Chrysler motors and even a few 9.9 versions of these in both Gamefisher and Force models.

What was the older Chrysler electronic ignition like? I see they list an electronic ignition back in the 70's on a few sailboat motors, maybe that's something worth using here?

The one thing that concerned me is that a guy I fish with owns an old Chrysler 15hp with electric start, the one with the starter on top of the flywheel, and that motor shows 145 psi on my compression gauge and its well used over the years. I think its marked Autoelectric on the cover.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

out of my depth, but is your C-D unit bad? I would want to test it or have it tested before looking at options. I have a Magnapower unit on my '78 Sailor, and seems to be working OK so far. Coils are mounted on the back of the flywheel. I had a smaller Autoelectric some years ago, and had it running well -- interesting and different little animal, though. To your point, I don't think the compression was 145 -- recalling more like 100 or so. I still don't think your compression is an issue at this point if the cylinders close to equal.

guess I would be inclined to look into replacing C-D units before going through a conversion, if I knew the existing units were bad. Again, the 15 hp motors are popular across brands (definitely including Chrysler/Force/Gamefisher). Seems like you clearly have some room to play with those if you do the work yourself.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I don't see how they can't be bad? I disconnected the kill wire to test, still no spark, there's nothing else in the circuit? I don't see any module, just a coil with a wire coming from it under the flywheel?
The way I see it, once you eliminate the kill switch and wiring, and there's no spark, it can't be anything but the coil.

 

[submariner1980]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

Hi, Loose rivet.
Hope I'm not too late to help you with these motors. Under flywheel are two black modules (SOLID STATE IGNITION) they are trouble. If you have some soldering skills (or will to try) it's easy to make motors running.
If interesting hit the bell I will guide you:wave:

 

[slowleak]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

Hi, Loose rivet.
Hope I'm not too late to help you with these motors. Under flywheel are two black modules (SOLID STATE IGNITION) they are trouble. If you have some soldering skills (or will to try) it's easy to make motors running.
If interesting hit the bell I will guide you:wave:

I've got the flywheel off of one of mine right now, its the first place I went when it didn't have spark with the kill switch disconnected.
Is there a way to repair the original modules?
I've owned mine since new, it went through three sets of those coils over the years, its been sitting dead now for 15 years or so.
After reading this thread and finding out there's a new ignition system I can buy to fix it for good I dug mine back out and have been giving it another look.

I'm all ears here if there's a cheaper and reliable fix.

 

[submariner1980]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I'll start new thread for this matter with pics.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

Is there any reason why I can't just retrofit an older Chrysler points stator plate and ignition, then replace the points with something like a Nova II points eliminator chip? (One for each cylinder).
It sure sounds cheaper than buying a bunch of parts or an expensive conversion kit from CDI.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Gamefisher 15hp - 1989

I'll start new thread for this matter with pics.

I saw your other post on 9.9-1hp ignitions but mine is a Force/Gamefisher not an Eska.
This has two coils right under the flywheel.