Gasoline production

K5WAS

Seaman
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
69
This is a email that I receieved from a person that I know very well. He retired from Amoco a few years ago. He was Vice President of Amoco pipeline before being sent to the Amoco refinery at Mandan So Dakoda where he was the plant mgr. He then went to the refinery at Whiting, IN as plant mgr.<br /><br />I asked him the question about blending gasoline at the pump as some have suggested. Below is his reply:<br /><br />Hi Darryl. Due to EPA regs, ie specific volatility and octane specs, requires blending at the refineries where it can periodically checked by government inspectors. For instance, at Whiting we had 44 specific different blends depending on where it was going. Milwaukee had one spec, Chicago another different than Cook County I might add, Detroit another.....as towns and counties "opped out" of various mandates. From the days of just 3 grades (still blended in the refinery )we had 44 that had to fit into our same inventory of tanks. What that meant is that we couldn't hold of a particular grade as we used to. For example, Chicago could not Cook County's blend. Then of course there was grades of Jet fuel for O'Hare that was different than government jet. The days of the blending Sunoco pumps are long gone. One other thing of interest is that the marketing stations inventory are now beamed via satellite and trucks are sent out "just in time" to (hopefully) prevent runouts. Some thing that was relatively simple is an absolute logistical marvel. As your finding out...the public doesn't have a clue as to what it takes to get gasoline to market. I even herd O'Rielly last nite make a dumb *** statement...as he thought the full 42 gallon barrel of crude oil could be made into gasoline.....we'll only the big sophisticated plants can approach 75 to 80% but most of the little refineries can only convert around 65% to gasoline.....the rest is propane, butane, kerosene, diesel, lube stocks, asphalt and pet coke. @ 42g/bx75%=31.50gal of gasoline in a barrel of crude oil. @$70/31.5gal=$2.22 just for the raw material, add 60+-(Chicago) cents for road tax one is already up to $2.82/gal. On top of that add about 15 cents to refine it( wages+energy), 20 cents to transport it and market it....and already we've got $3.17. The guy making the money is the crude oil producer, ie the Saudi's et al....as it costs typically $4.00 to bring the crude out of the ground.....BUT, that's not counting the cost to build these big drilling rigs, for example the big BP rig called "Thunderhorse" cost ONE BILLION dollars....and the dam thing almost sunk during the last hurricane. Hope this helps....>>>>>>>>>>>Dan
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Gasoline production

Makes perfect sense to me. Those honkin', flippin' dirty, rotten oil companies are gouging us to the tune of minus 5% profit. MoFos!!! :mad:
 

K5WAS

Seaman
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
69
Re: Gasoline production

I don't know how much they are making. I do know that my BP dividends went up 5% when dispersed this month. Not sure what that indicates because my Bell South dividends for the same period went up 5.5%. The congress is going to investigate the oil industry. The last time that they did that was in the 70s and found no wrong doing. Are they gouging? your guess is as good as mine.
 

oddjob

Commander
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
2,723
Re: Gasoline production

Are they gouging....can you say GAS TAX....AL GORE and CLINTON...<br /><br />Funny thing today Clinton and all dems who voted the bill in back in the 90's now say its Busheys faultthat prices are so high and the taxes yada yada ding dong!
 

RichP1269

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
78
Re: Gasoline production

Oil companies make the majority of their money on the secondary products from the refining process.<br />Plastics, naptha, butane, diesel, etc..<br />Without these products, you wouldn't see multi billion dollar profits every quarter. Chances are, you would see a loss.
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Gasoline production

Originally posted by oddjob:<br /> Are they gouging....can you say GAS TAX....AL GORE and CLINTON...<br /><br />Funny thing today Clinton and all dems who voted the bill in back in the 90's now say its Busheys faultthat prices are so high and the taxes yada yada ding dong!
sorry, hate ta break this sad news to ya:<br /><br />When Ronald Reagan took office in 1981 the federal gasoline tax was 4¢ per gal. <br /><br />When Clinton took office in 1993 it was 18.4¢,<br />a 360% increase during the Reagan/Bush years.<br /><br />When Clinton left office it was 18.4¢, same as today, <br />a zero percent increase during the Clinton years.<br /><br />Reagan increase = 9¢<br />GHW Bush ("read my lips, no new taxes") increase = 5.4¢
 

NYMINUTE

Captain
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
3,298
Re: Gasoline production

Likely to add more to the tax so we can pay for the Hurricanes wrath. Insurance companies will demand our help covering the claims. Public Utilities also wiil add charges for the cost of repair from the storms. Lets not forget rising prices at Walmart and other retailers to recover the lost sales DUE TO OUR BEING PENNILESS PAYING ALL THE BLOODY TAXES AND SUR CHARGES TO THESE MONEY GRUBBING PIRATES THEY CALL CEO's :mad:
 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: Gasoline production

Ask for higher premiums to cover their payouts?<br /><br />Who'd a thunk it?<br /><br />PUD customers foot the bill for repairs? Who should pay?<br /><br />WallMart raising prices? I'd venture a wild guess that Walmart, despite what their commercials might suggest, charge as much as they think they can, and what the competition dictates, irrespective of their costs.<br /><br />And I thought all conservatives were free marketers--it is the one part of their philosophy I agree with, and now you are spoiling it!
 

txswinner

Banned
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
2,326
Re: Gasoline production

jtexas, when are you going to learn that most of these don't do facts they just do the left wing liberals thing.<br /><br />the info from Dan was very good except:<br />1. There are 13 gal. of other petro sellable from $2 per gal or so each so there is a little profit there.<br /><br />2. Yeah, Saudi gets a profit, then the oil companies get there hands on it and it is traded in futures and so a little profit there since they are the only ones with refineries any more. <br /><br />3. So who makes the big bucks. Here is a hint: one of them has a name with 2 XX in it and is not a word in any known language.<br /><br />4. Time for a breakup just like Ma Bell, competition makes for better prices and products.
 

Elmer Fudge

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
1,881
Re: Gasoline production

Ya wanna see some high taxes?<br /><br />take a look at your phone bill :(
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: Gasoline production

Originally posted by Elmer Fudge:<br /> Ya wanna see some high taxes?<br /><br />take a look at your phone bill :(
Made one chargeable call on my landline last month. 4 page bill :mad:
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Gasoline production

I was going to mention President Bush's brother Neil Mellon Bush, whom his dad, Former President Bush, named after his boss, Neil Mellon, at Dresser Industries, predessessor to Halliburton, who's former CEO was President Ford's White House Chief of Staff, Former President Bush's Secretary of Defense, and the current Vice President, **** Cheney, but then I realized, no way could that be relevant.<br /><br />But I will say that the Federal Government has erected artificial barriers to entry into the petroleum refining market, in the form of punishing environmental laws, resulting in a gasoline market that is not subject to the laws of supply and demand expected in a free market economy.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Gasoline production

jtexas, thats entirely unamerican much less un republican to even suggest croniesm or hireing of incompetence soley due to friendship. shame on ya :) <br /> and no one still has a clue that you cannot move 1.2 million people in 24 hours if you suddenly holler go. it creates a massive jam.<br /> seems no one still has a plan. it happens here about once per year.
 

imported_Curmudgeon

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
496
Re: Gasoline production

.. resulting in a gasoline market that is not subject to the laws of supply and demand expected in a free market economy.<br /><br />Let's see if I understand how deez laws work:<br /> <br />1) Supply goes down, demand remains stable - price goes up. Supply goes down, demand goes up - price goes up further.<br /><br />2) Supply goes up, demand remains stable - price goes down. Supply goes up and demand goes down - price goes down further.<br /> <br />3) Supply remains stable, demand goes up - price goes up; supply remains stable, demand goes down - price goes down.<br /><br />Looks real similar to the free market laws I learned somewhere in 18 years of edumacation and 30 years in business!<br /><br />People are pissed because market laws are doing exactly what would be expected in a free market, it's just that now it's gas/fuel and not Cabbage Patch dolls or Nike tenni-pumps. Our society is now reaping what we sowed in the 70s when our government let the ragheads get away with an oil embargo. And it ain't the federal tax, Tex, that's been constant for 15 years (and decreasing as a percentage of cost).<br /> <br />Now, as for some antiquated invironmental and NIMBY constraints enacted under primarily democratic federal and state legislatures ... another example of reaping and sowing, me thinkith. :eek:
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Gasoline production

old c, you forgot number 4, especially applicable in this case where demand is very inelastic:<br /><br />4) Supply remains stable, demand remains stable - price goes up until profit margins attract competitors who enter the market, increasing supply - price goes back down. But competitors don't enter the market if the government has created artificial barriers to competition in the form of increased regulatory compliance costs that discriminate against new entrants.<br /><br />That "barrier" part is a theory, so feel free to shoot it full of holes if you can draw a bead on it. ;) <br /><br />(btw, I know about the taxes, I just had to get up in oddjob's face about, no offense intended oj)<br /><br /> :)
 
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