gelcoat

sbooy42

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
154
So I was kind of thrown into to spraying gelcoat... did some internet research and videos, I've done a couple jobs that turned out good but have a couple questions.

What reducer? thinner, acetone etc? Ive been using thinner
What reduction are you using. I've been using 20% but feel it needs a little more.
Do you use any type of wax additive?
How much MEK? Drops or do you weigh? Ive been using 1.5%-2%
Will some reducers yellow white? What reducer is the cleaniest?
What type of release agent used over the gel?

Any other info would be great

thanks
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
25,929
This may be of interest...

"Gelcoat is normally sprayed on in multiple coats to achieve the final cured thickness. You want enough thickness to allow for the initial sanding and polishing process, and still leave enough thickness to last a decade or more of maintenance compounding and polish before getting too thin.

The cured thickness you want prior to initial sanding is a minimum 30 mils & max 35 mils. This will allow for a 5 - 10 mil thickness reduction, leaving around 20 - 25 mils after polish. Any heavier than 25 mils and you'll run the risk of spider cracks in a few years. Gelcoat continues to cure and shrink through out its life span. Standard maintenance will reduce your thickness by about 2 - 3 mils a year if you do a semi annual compounding & polish on top side surfaces & 1 - 2 mils for an annual hull maintenance.

You should be able to spray 10 mils per application & allowing for shrinkage in the initial cure, this would be 4 applications. The application schedule would be as follows:

1. 10 mils gelcoat - little or no additives* & no surfacing wax
2. 10 mils gelcoat - little or no additives* & no surfacing wax
3. 10 mils gelcoat - with additives* & surfacing wax


Allow the gelcoat to harden for several hours between coats. Coat 1 & 2 will be tacky after hardening to the point that you can't put much of an impression in it with your fingernail. Coat 3 should have no tack at all at the same point.

The surfacing wax will migrate to the surface as the curing cycle takes place and create a barrier to air. This is necessary for a tack free surface when cured so that you can sand.

An alternative to using surfacing wax in the gelcoat mix is to over spray the gelcoat with PVA, (polyvinyl alchol). The problem with this method is getting the right amount of material misted onto the un-cured gelcoat to block the air out and in gauging just when to apply the PVA. Too much will adversely affect the gelcoat finish & cure, applied too soon will do the same. Not enough will allow air, leaving a tacky cure, too late will not block the air soon enough still leaving a tacky gelcoat cure.

PVA is misted on with a fine tipped gun at around 90 - 100 PSI. It must be applied at a point when the gelcoat has started gelling but hasn't hardened. The right amount of PVA is an unbroken film of less than 1 mill. The amount of PVA needed will also be more costly than the amount of surfacing wax needed.

Gelcoat is quite viscous and almost impossible to spray without thinning it. The less you can thin it the better the gelcoat will be, so the use of a larger spray tip is required. The use of both 2mm & 2.2 mm HVLP gravity feed cup guns is highly recommended. At this size the thinning is kept to a minimum.

You can use Acetone, MEK or lacquer thinner to thin gelcoat but NOT recommended. Styrene is good but, the best product to use, (manufactured by several resin companies), is called "patch booster". Patch booster is a high quality, low viscosity polyester resin with additives to minimize a tacky surface when cured. Depending on the tip size of your gun, 10% - 15% patch booster is all you may need. Try not to exceed 20% in the first three coats.

On the third coat add about 10% surfacing wax so that after the gelcoat cures it will be sandable. Allow at least 24 hours for final cure & before sanding. Sanding with 180 grit on the 3 coat will allow you to remove most, if not all of the orange peel texture and check your fairing.

The final gelcoat application will be done with a 1 mm tip gun, adding between 30% - 40% patch booster, & 10% surfacing wax. This application will be more like what you'd get shooting paint. Because of the lowered viscosity, watch out for sags and runs... Allow 2 or 3 minutes between overcoats to get your 10 mils. ie: spray about 5 mils over a given area and re-coat that area in 2 - 3 minutes.

Let the final application fully cure before sanding. Minimum 24 hours, 48 hours would be best... There should be very little texture present in the cured 4th application and you could start sanding with as fine a grit as 320 wet. Start with a finer grit first and back up to a coarser grit if necessary.

If you don't add enough surfacing wax the air will get to the gelcoat and it'll cure tacky and almost un-sandable. If you add too much the surface will have a waxy scum that will make sanding difficult. But too much surfacing wax is the lesser of the two evils. Remove the wax from the surface with naphtha followed with a soap and water wash. In lieu of naphtha, use a concentrated liquid laundry soap such as Wisk. Actually apply the soap directly to the surface, allow to stand for a couple of minutes and rinse well.

For the finest finish, you'll want to wet sand through 1,000 grit before compounding. Make sure that each grit has removed the scratches from the previous grit. Don't move to the next grit without thoroughly rinsing. A wet surface won't allow you to see fine sanding marks, so dry the surface and inspect it before moving to the next grit...

Once you've reached the end of your sanding, the 1,000 grit will have brought your surface up to a dull luster. A course rubbing compound shouldn't be necessary and you may be able move to a fine compound like 3M Finesse-it. Follow the Finesse-it with an automotive finish sealant such as Meguire's Machine Glaze. This is followed with a swirl remover such as 3M Perfect-it & a foam pad.

The resulting finish and the nature of the gelcoat will far exceed a painted surface in terms of longevity and repair ability, but you'll see why painting is the less expensive alternative. Gelcoat is less expensive in terms of material costs, but that is outweighed in terms of labor costs... Over a 20 year period the gelcoat becomes more cost effective, especially when compared with Awlgrip on topside surfaces since there would be at least 1 if not more re-paint jobs needed."
 

sbooy42

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
154
Once again I really appreciate your help Woodonglass
 

Georgesalmon

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
1,793
I probably should not stick my nose in here but oh well,,,,,,,

Gel coat is not paint and can not be thought of that way. Gel coat is nothing more than polyester resin usually orthothalic or isothalic with color pigments and thixotropic agents with some UV protectants in it and needs to be handled that way.

I'm going to speak to the common commercial use of gel coat because that is where my experience lies.

Gel coat is a thixotropic material which means it will have less viscosity when its agitated (think sprayed) and higher viscosity at rest. This allows it to hang on vertical surfaces after spraying and not run and sag at proper thickness.

Gel coat is most commonly sprayed with high pressure airless equipment or using pressure pots, not from suction guns of any type because of the high viscosity of the material at rest.

Gel coat is formulated to be used as is with no thinner of any type, however for patching and repairing there may not be much choice. The best thinner if you have to would be styrene since anything else is not compatible with the chemistry of polymerization (curing). Any thinner such as acetone and the like either has to evaporate or just stays in there and degrades the performance of the gel coat. Patch booster, patch aid, etc. is usually just some styrene with surfacing agents and maybe some cobalt to speed up the cure time. Plus some magical stuff each manufacturer adds because theirs is the "best".

Gel coat should be sprayed at 6 mils per coat wet on wet with three coats to get to 18 plus or minus 2 mils before it starts to cure. You need 18 mils to get enough mass for the exothermic heat to generate a proper cure. If you do get 18 mils wet it will shrink to around 12 mils when cured. 12 mils cured is considered just enough to get a good hide of what's under it. White being the hardest color to get a hide. Much thicker than 20 mils or so cured makes gel coat really brittle (low elongation) and will crack easily.

Most gel coat is formulated to use 1.8% MEKP, although they will make anything you want if you buy enough.

IMHO you just can not get a really good performing gel coat surface with out using it properly and paint would be a much better choice for a home user. I mean think about, all the really high end composite boats are using paint for the final finish. They will spray a special "primer" gel coat in the mold and then sand and paint for the final surface. Look at a 30 year old automobile paint job that has had minimal care and then look at a 30 year old boat with a gel coat surface that has had minimal care and you'll have your answer.
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
25,929
I'm in Total Agreement with GS ^^^. I think Paint IS the way to go. I was just answering the Gelcoat question as it was presented. GS did it better than I did due to the fact that he is speaking from years of experience. I have learned much from him!!!! Thanks George!!!
 

sbooy42

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
154
Is this still the Sailboat you're working on??

Yes that was one of the jobs....
Being a painter for 20+ years I would prefer to paint everything lol... but gel coat and fiberglass have now become a large part of my business so I gotta educate myself..=) again I really appreciate the info guys..
 

sbooy42

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
154
sorry I haven't researched this yet...but how are you measuring mils? (assume a special gauge for glass)........ my gauges use a magnet
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
25,929
Thickness in mils (20 mils is approx the thickness of a penney) can be measured using any digital thickness meter. You can get em on eBay for around $40 bucks. Or a standard thickness guage stuck into the surface while it's wet.
 

kcassells

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
8,738
I'm in Total Agreement with GS ^^^. I think Paint IS the way to go. I was just answering the Gelcoat question as it was presented. GS did it better than I did due to the fact that he is speaking from years of experience. I have learned much from him!!!! Thanks George!!!


The gelcoat process is more than I anticipated! No-one mentioned temperatures either for the gelcoat process.
I believe you all have answered my concerns as to when I need to get the finish on my boat. Paint is looking much more practical. Thanks everyone for the input.
 

Georgesalmon

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
1,793
As far as application temperatures you are not talking much if any difference between gel coat and paint. They both need to done at IMHO at least 65F, although I would like that to be the minimum. I know, I know, lots have done it colder than that. Gel coat may take several days or longer to cure to a decent Barcol below 75F.
 

sbooy42

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
154
agree 70-75 degrees is my preferred temp for painting...
 
Top