General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

[tonyscj5]

I recently purchased a fiberglass hull/wood rib and rail river dory that is in need of some repair. I am planning on stripping all the wood out and remaking the pieces out of oak. I figure I probably shouldn't drill into the fiberglass, so I will have to fiberglass most of the parts on. I think the boat is fairly old and made with polyester resin, I am wondering if I can use epoxy resin and fiberglass to restore this boat? Are epoxy and fiberglass compatible?<br /><br />I am going to make new rails, ribs, seats, and transom out of oak and mahogany marine ply. Anything I should know or keep in mind, please let me know as this is my first project of this type.<br /><br />Thanks Very Much<br /><br />Tony

 

[funpilot]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

Two Words:<br /><br />Brass Fastners.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

epoxy will stick to the poly but poly wont stick to the epoxy...<br /><br />and whats wrong with stainless steel fastners?

 

[crab bait]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

brass fasteners are to soft an have no place in a boat.. hot dipped galvanize or ss steel.. <br /><br />make SURE it's WHITE oak an not red.. red oak is the fastest rotting wood in north america.. <br /><br />don't use nothing but 'THICKEN epoxy' for jointery an 'THIN' for laminate an encapsulaion..

 

[petrolhead]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

I agree, I wouldn't use brass fasteners either, ever seen a piece of brass that's been exposed to salt water for some time? It looks like a sponge as all the zinc is dissolved out by catalytic action, leaving just the copper.<br />Phosphor bronze, stainless steel, or hot dipped galvanised make the best fasteners.

 

[tonyscj5]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

Thanks for the help, I will probably use stainless because I have most and have acsess to most others for way cheap.<br /><br />Okay, white oak not red. <br /><br />So lets get this straight. Use epoxy for all glue joints, thick, and use thin epoxy for the laminating and encapsilating. Can you just buy thick and thin kinds of epoxy? Or do you add a thickening agent. <br /><br />As far as encapsilation and finish. Should I coat all wood parts in epoxy then varnish them. I am going to be making ribs rails and seats from oak and mahogany marine ply which I want to preserve and make look good. I think I have heard of coating in epoxy then adding a finish over that? Will this have the clear glossy look that varnish will have with more durability. <br /><br />Also how should I attatch the ribs to the hull? I dont want to screw through the fiberglass. Is their any type of fiberglass that I can attach the oak ribs to the hull while still being able to clearly see the wood grain through the glass.<br /><br />Should I completely encapsulate plywood pieces of wood front back and edges to keep moisture out.<br /><br />What is the best paint for the inside of the boat, sratch resistant and durable.<br /><br />Thats all I can think of for now.<br /><br />Thanks <br />Tony

 

[chuck in WA]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

When I built my kayak, I thickened the epoxy with "wood flour" which, as the name implies, is just VERY fine sawdust (looks like flour for baking cookies, but is tan in color) Coating all parts of wood with unthickened epoxy will ensure a waterproof barrier - varnish alone will allow water to get through. Any epoxy exposed to sunlight will need a couple coats of Spar varnish on it, as UV rays will break down the epoxy over time.

 

[petrolhead]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

My preference is to buy one large container of resin and use that as the base to make glue, filler etc..., it's generally more economical. I normally use WEST System epoxy, it's supplied as a thin laminating resin, thickened with colloidal silica it makes glue, or you can add microballoons or fairing compound to make filler, microfibres to make it stronger etc...<br />Much better than having to buy lots of seperate resin products, the shelf life of this stuff is quite short so you may end up throwing most of it away if you do it that way.

 

[crab bait]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

sure have alot of questions,,but that's good..<br /><br />there's no way to attach ribs to hull an keep it clear an pretty.. must use 4 layers of ugly biaxial cloth an hand made up epoxy an fillers putty ..to make a swail first an to top coat the cloth to fair..<br /><br />have to make swail ,,as biaxail cloth or any cloth for that matter wont lay to right angles.. <br /><br />for a 4 inch cloth works ..you'll have at least a 12 in putty taperd fairing when all's said an done..

 

[tonyscj5]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

okay let me get this straight, I need to glass the ribs to the hull using ugly biaxial cloth. I guess I could get paint them? I am thinking I may just attatch them to the rails and to the lower cross pieces that goes side to side on the floor and are glassed in. What do you think, will this be enough. Currently everything was rotten and bolts were lose. I figure if I install ne oak rails and steats, it should stiffen it way up, and the ribs will just be a bunus. I see the stitch and glue ply wood dorrys with only limited side ribs, and they are way solid.<br /><br />What do you recomend?<br /><br />What is a good scratch resistance flaw hiding paint for the inside floor of the boat?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Tony

 

[petrolhead]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

I've used garage floor paint for the interiors of my two boats, it's cheap, tough (they drive cars on it!), oil and fuel proof, and contains a non-slip additive.<br />The only downside I can think of is it comes in a limited range of colours.

 

[whiteox3]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

tip rrom down under use poly resin as its cheap and will do any thing you ask of it if you want a filler use fine lime mix it to the thickness you want add harding and fill your dents. it will bond to epoxy if the area is lightly sanded and cleaned with gass tip #2 when fiberglass over wood I use a cloth not glass look for a old bed sheet.with a close weave . I like cotton fiberglassing is only to water proof and make it strong Its much like cementing reo is only used to give the cement strenth, cloth is the same. it has alwaws worked for me and I have used it seince the 60th and have not found any thing it wont repair

 

[MercMark]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

You might want to look into canoe and kayak making for some techniques on doing exposed ribs without cloth.<br /><br />I grew up sanding a Lakefield hull cedar strip. It had no cloth on the inside. Peterborough and Lakefield hull cedar strips were exactly the same except Peterborough hulls had half round ribs and Lakefield hulls had square ribs.

 

[BillP]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

How were the orignal ribs fastened to the hull? If not glassed or fastened with screws they were glued. Epoxy will glue any wood to the inside of the hull without a structural problem. It's been sucessfully done for years and years on small boats. Before epoxy came on the scene it was done with Weldwood resorcinol glue with great results...resorcinol is way inferior to epoxy. The only reason to glass is for protecting the wood from rot causing water. For a boat like that any exterior enamel (oil based) will work fine.

 

[crab bait]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

i failed to ask/you didn't give size of craft.. but attachin' ribs to the hull without screws an just relie on 'glue' is somethin' i would not practice.. i.e. biaxail cloth..<br /><br />yes 'stitch & glues'are VERY strong an require less/no framing an ribs.. but lot of biaxail cloth..<br /><br />but if'n yours ain't a S & G,, than it ain't an S & G.. an can't be made into one

 

[funpilot]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

Why brass fastners?<br /><br />Because the only boat I ever rebuilt was a 1952 Tollycraft Utility... and it had brass fastners in it, and they worked fine when I used brass fastners in all the replacement parts, even in the transom.<br /><br />But heck, stainless sounds good too.<br /><br />Thanks for correcting me!<br /><br />Good luck,<br />fp

 

[lark2004]

Re: General fiberglass/wood boat building question?

in relation to whiteox3's comment on using, polyester.... DO NOT DO IT!. Epoxy may be more expensive, BUT it doesn't delaminate like polyester resin does.