Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

[Mattraymond60]

Talking about a 1990 Four Winns Freedom here. Had to change my bellows since the upper one had a tear in it. This is my first time working on a power boat so I guess it didn't go too bad overall (so far) but I have a couple of questions while I wait for my alignment tool to get here.

1. I didn't notice the part in the manual about the opening in the outer ring of the gimbal bearing needing to being lined up a certain way "for lubrication" on the new gimbal bearing before I installed it. The bearing looked like a sealed unit so I didn't even think about needing to line anything up. Is this a big deal? If so where does the lubrication come from?

2. Also I missed the part about putting the drive in "forward" before removing the outdrive. How big of a hassle did I create for myself by not doing this and is there something that I should now do before trying to put the outdrive back on?

Just bought this boat a month ago and it ran great the two times I had it out except for the leak but after I started getting into fixing that it is obvious the PO was not getting what he was paying for in the maintenance of it. He admitted that he is not in the least bit mechanically inclined and just took it in for winterizing and servicing when needed.

Learning a lot off of this forum!!!!!

Thanks!!!!

 

[Mattraymond60]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Okay I did some more digging and found my answer to the gimbal bearing question. But I still don't know what I need to do to fix my issue of removing the drive while it was in neutral instead of forward. How do I position the outdrive to forward before I install it?

 

[Kainon]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

I put the shifter and drive in forward when installing so that I can turn the drive shaft by turning the prop counter clockwise to line up the splines easier and work the universal joint section through the restriction of the bellows. But on a Mercruiser you have to have the outdrive in forward to take the drive off and put it on because of the different shifting mechanism/levers are designed.

TO position the drive in forward on the OMC you would move the prop counter clockwise and move the lever at the front of the drive down.

 

[Mattraymond60]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Great, thank you! Next time I will remember to put it in forward before I remove it. I am hoping to get back on the water this weekend!!

 

[Mattraymond60]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Update time..... One more evening of work and I hope to be ready for the water again! Thus far I have overhauled my carb, pulled the outdrive to change the bellows and gimbal bearing and lube everything up good and reinstalled the outdrive and prop. Also had the prop overhauled as long as I knew I was dry for a while, it wasn't in horrible shape but not real great either. Looks 100% better now! Tomorrow night I am going to change the oil in the outdrive and then fire it up and see if the carb overhaul helped. When I overhauled it, it was full of nasty stuff so I hope to see some real improvement there.

Many of the wizards on here are going to think that I am nuts for not doing this right now but..... Over the winter I plan on changing the u-joints and seal in the yoke as well as cleaning all that area up, you can tell that it has had water where it isn't supposed to be (in the upper bellows) for quite some time. I also need to align the engine better. I messed with that for a couple of evenings but couldn't figure it out. Do engines ever go out of alignment laterally or is it only vertically? A definite headscratcher for me so far. Obviously I am going to take care of anything that appears to be a problem as soon as I discover it. I also am going to do some cosmetic work, seats to be recovered etc.

I have spent lots of time reading various posts on here and learning from the events that happen to others, one would almost get scared to ever take their boat out considering all the bad things that can happen!! I have only had my boat out twice since I got it so I figure I need to just run it for a while and see what comes up. Considering how bad of shape some boats get by being in and still being operational I think that I am okay for this season with the known issues that I have so far. I may regret it later......

I will post another update when there is something more to report. Who knows, I may drain milk from my outdrive tomorrow night and be off to work on it for a few more weeks......

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Great, thank you! Next time I will remember to put it in forward before I remove it. I am hoping to get back on the water this weekend!!

Kainon is incorrect. On a cobra you need to leave the drive in NEUTRAL!!! To engage the splines when installing, you just stick a screwdriver through the yokes and rotate them as you push on the drive.

 

[Mattraymond60]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Oil in the outdrive looked good so I didn't change it. Fired it up on the muffs and promptly burned up the impeller! Going to go get a new one of those today. Have a feeling it was weak to start with and the muffs must not have been tight enough to help push water uphill to the impeller. After I removed the impeller I turned on the water again to make sure it was flowing up to the impeller, I had to hold the muffs against the outdrive then water would pour out of the impeller housing like it should. Off to the store!!

 

[Idlespeedonly]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Get a couple spare impellers and housings.

 

[Mattraymond60]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Got the new impeller installed today and headed for the dock to see if all my work accomplished anything. Short answer is.... not really. The new impeller works great. I must have still had an old style one installed originally, the burned up one had an impeller that was only half as deep as the housing and the new one is full depth. Still have a small amount of water trickling in through the opening in the transom (replaced the bellows to address this since the upper bellows had a tear in it) with the boat just sitting in the water without the engine running and the drive up. Doesn't seem to leak as much with the drive lowered. I didn't replace the shift cable boot, guess I should have done that at the same time but I couldn't figure out how to get the shift cable free from the pivot housing. Engine acceleration from idle still sucks, sounds like it is starving for fuel as it tries to accelerate but once it gets up to speed it will run great. Very slow throttle advancement will get us up to speed and it runs great. Put a new accelerator pump in it during the carb cleaning and overhaul hoping that would fix it. A big concern though was a strong gas smell as we were driving around. Tonight was the first time that I have put gas in this boat so I am going to pull the floor up tomorrow and see if something is leaking around the fill line or somewhere in that area. Any ideas on any of these issues to help me out?

 

[Mattraymond60]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Guess that I should put some more info in here. 1990 Four Winns 170 Freedom with a 3.0 Cobra.

 

[duke3478]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Oh, man, this reminds me of the first few outings with my '91... Clueless previous owner, and a bunch of unknown problems, but every project (and every $100 spent) givess you just enough improvement to keep fighting. Fight on! It's worth it.

You should never smell gasoline. Find that leak first and foremost. Fiberglass boats burn like a ping pong ball. Check easy areas like the fuel lines in and out of the fuel filter, water separator, and into the carb. RUN YOUR BLOWER and locate the fuel smell in your driveway on muffs before you go out again.

What carb do you have? If it's a Holley like mine (4.3 OMC) it's very easy to adjust. At warm idle on muffs, (or at the dock) dial idle up to about 900 rpm. Then adjust the left adjusting screw for the highest idle you can find, followed by the right, then dial the idle back down to 600-700. Good carb adjustment can affect every bit of your running, from off-idle to WOT.

If you have water 'trickling in' from the transom, you need to find out where. If it's a crack around the plug hole or shift cable hole, that's a whole different animal than their it's coming in through the bellows. If its coming in through the bellows, then there's water going through your new gimbal bearing and around your u-joints. You CAN'T run like that.

If its worse when the drive is up, consider two things:

1. You should never run, even in neutral, with the drive tilted up. Your ujoints are going all the time, and aren't meant to run at an extreme angle. Im not sure, but I think this can CAUSE a leak. I did it accidentally once and suddenly had water in my bellows.

2. Your ujoint bellows is not symmetrical. There are more coils on the bottom to give you slack to tilt up. If it's on wrong, you may be breaking the seal when you're tilted up, then compressing the leaky gap when you're tilted down, slowing the leak.

Its very easy to remove the entire engine cover, just four screws holding the lower part of the 'box' to the floor. Consider taking these four screws out, but leaving the box in place, and getting on the water like that. Then you can slide the box forward and off to let you get right down close (probably with the engine off) to see where the leak is. You can put the box back and run like that all day as long as it seems nice and snug.

I know it's a pain, but I'd check that bellows now before going out again. I don't know if there's a way to check if it's right-side up without removing it. Anybody?

Good luck! You'll have it all licked soon. Just don't be like the PO. Adjust your carb every 100 hours or so, check your shift cable, lube your throttle lever, check your drive oil, check your prop nut... Well, you get the idea. Take care of her, and she'll take care of you.

Another thing, cheap (sort of) insurance against getting towed in is a second battery and a [craigslist?] trolling motor. If something kills the drive or you have an engine failure, you can buzz in at five or six mph. Sure beats drifting or rowing if there's no one around!

 

[Mattraymond60]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Thanks for all the input!! The gas smell is my highest priority to find, as soon as we started smelling it last night I turned around and high tailed it back to the dock. When I parked it a couple of weeks ago it showed about a half a tank (18 gallon tank) so I stopped fueling it after I had added 12 gallons last night. It doesn't smell strong enough like it is filling the bottom of the boat but stronger than it should be.

This was the first I have heard about there being a right side up to the bellows, I will check that!

My carb is a Holley 2300 series. Seems weird that it idles great and runs great once it is up to speed but doesn't like to accelerate even from a mid range power setting. I figured it was the accelerator pump but it pumps fuel when you pump the throttle. I would also think that if the float weren't set properly it would surge or not run properly at higher power settings.

I am going to go get everything to tune up the ignition system today just to take that out of the equation.

My doghouse is already loose while I am troubleshooting, makes life a lot easier! As soon as we smelled gas I opened it up to lessen the likelihood of fumes building up in there.

I am a firm believer in preventive maintenance, much nicer to go out and have fun without having to worry about something not being right. Just have to get to "right" to start with.

Thanks again!!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

2. Your ujoint bellows is not symmetrical. There are more coils on the bottom to give you slack to tilt up. If it's on wrong, you may be breaking the seal when you're tilted up, then compressing the leaky gap when you're tilted down, slowing the leak.

AT least for OEM bellows there is no bottom or top to a u-joint bellows. I would really like to know what you mean by "breaking the seal". There is no seal to break!

The OMC factory manual also makes no mention of a top or bottom.

Easiest way to see if there is a leak in the bellows is to pull the drive.

 

[Mattraymond60]

Re: Gimbal Bearing and Outdrive question

Had the boat out for a couple of hours today. None of the shops in my area had the tune up parts so I will be ordering them online tomorrow. Did buy new plugs and installed them plus one new lead that fell apart when I was pulling it off of the plug. Still hesitates when accelerating but not as bad. Transom leak is still there but as long as we are cruising around it hardly leaks at all. The gas leak we had was a rotted out fuel quantity sender gasket, I made a new one and life is good there. We are going to use it again tomorrow before I start tearing it apart again. The wife was smiling as we were cruising about so life is good!!