Haditha

[rodbolt]

in an email from my late fathers buddy I was asked a question.<br /> as my dad and his friend spent many years in the mid east and his friend is in UAE now he says the Haditha chat is this.<br /> IF the allegations that some US citizens actually murdered Iraqis should they be extridited and stand trial for war crimes in the same US backed Iraqi court that saddam is currently being tried in with Iraqi Jurors?<br /> if not why not?<br /> if the US recognizes that court, why can the US block extradition if the US courts find reasonable cause that a crime was commited in Iraq.<br /> both countries have the death penalty so that argument is out.<br /><br /><br /> This is what my late dad's friend is hearing at local coffee houses.<br /> how would you respond?<br /> why ?

 

[tommays]

Re: Haditha

I think its a NON-ISSUE as long as the facts come out AND IF guilty they get the appropriate Punishment <br /><br />I would not put it past our Enemies to have arranged this as they have no problem useing women and children as shields<br /><br />tommays

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Haditha

not the question<br /> IF the servicemen are convicted of the awful nasties we read about I hope we have no extradition treaties with Iraq.<br /> If they did it I would rather them be sentanced here than there no matter what the sentance.<br />however in our rush to set up kangarooo courts it may bite us.<br /> we will see in the next few weeks, the death certs,eywitness's and a video dont make it look to promising.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Haditha

This just in: Attorney says 8 U.S. troops to face murder charges in death of Iraqi civilian.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Haditha

bummer<br /> I have not looked tonight.<br /> I dont really want to.<br /> I was hoping all was BS.<br /> but if its not, and the crime,if any, was commited in Iraq should the crimminals be extradited if the Iraqi govt formally requests it?<br /> this question has implications that far exceed just Iraq.<br /> think of any US intrest,namly oil companies, that could be seized with no compensation, US citizens could be imprisoned for nothing, and as for 60 years we have beat the "rule of law" drum, it would leave the US in a bad predicament worldwide if we say the rule of law only applies when its to our advantage.<br /> its not gonna be pretty if what the press claims to be true is actually true.

 

[gspig]

Re: Haditha

Simple answer is they, the soldiers, are US military property. Don't believe me ask any soldier if it's true. The US military should get first crack at trial and punishment. The Iraq gov. gets second crack. The question is should the second trial occur during incarceration or after.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Haditha

Some alleged "innocents" died. Some Marines are facing charges. If there is a trial, it should be handled in the normal JAG manner at home, in The United States of America, not Iraq.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Haditha

so if some umagumgees kill 25 californians and go back to umagumgee should the US ask for their extradition or give them a fruitcake killing medal ?<br /> there is a current beef about mexicans not being extradited from mexico now, as well as venezuela is asking for the extradition of a known terrorist airline bomber from the US that the US is not honoring.<br /> this question is gonna have very long and very international ramifications. I hope our current admin can handle it.

 

[bootle]

Re: Haditha

There is a precedent where US service men were handed over to a Japanese court for trial.<br />Not a senario that is likely to repeat itself in the case of Iraq.<br />The Iraqi judicial system is wholly inadequate, the Sadaam trial is a circus just for show.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Haditha

The umagumgees don't care if they kill fruit or cake or crackers, but I digress. Good one rodbolt

 

[PW2]

Re: Haditha

When you put soldiers under this kind of stress, it was bound to happen.<br /><br />That doesn't answer your question RB. The answer to your question is no way they will be tried in an Iraqi court, no matter what, and no matter who might decide differently from a legal standpoint.<br /><br />I really hope, but know I am wrong, that prosecutions won't be limited to just the enlisted men under the theory that they are a few bad apples, when we are setting this result up with our poor planning.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Haditha

I believe it was in 1968 that Lieutenant William Callie was convicted of killing 22 civilians in what became known as the Mai Lai massacre. His trial was at Ft. McPherson. <br /><br /> Viet Nam was "special" - the enemy was quite literally everywhere and indistinguishable from friends I imagine that it is a lot like Iraq is today. We appear to have learned very little from that conflict - we were in similar straits in Somalia. We cannot tell friend from foe. How can the individual mind survive a constant state of siege without snapping?<br /><br /> There were atrocities committed by US troops in Southeast Asia. There were atrocities committed by the Viet Cong and the Khmer Rouge. It was a truly hellish place all around.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Haditha

PW I can agree on most, but the US set up the almighty god fearing cout that is trying saddam. if the iraqis formally ask to hand over more war crimminals how do we shut down the kangaroo court we started?<br />the Us is the one that has beat the drums, do we march or run ?

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Haditha

Professor, ya gotta stop stirring up this peaceful community. we; democrats, Republicans, Greens, Apples and Oranges agree illegal immigration should be halted. <br /><br /><br />And what the heck is , "Haditha"?

 

[treedancer]

Re: Haditha

And what the heck is , "Haditha"?

Here this link will tell you all you will ever want to know about Haditha.<br /><br /> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_05/008903.php

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Haditha

Had they been civilians instead of soldiers, then I think extradition would be appropriate. But they're military, and military deals with military. As far as punishing the higher-ups, don't count on too much beyond those that participated in the cover-up. None but the perps will be prosecuted for the murders (unless they acted under orders, which seems doubtful).<br /><br />Except for putting them there, Bush is out of the loop on this one. So he'll survive this volley as well. Why, oh Why can't we find some woman to give this man oral sex so we can impeach him already?

 

[rolmops]

Re: Haditha

This would be a good time to support our troops.Enlisted or reserve,most of them have figured out that their current presence in Irak,does not do much to protect their friends and family in America.<br />At this point they probably are mostly concerned with getting out in one piece.Cost what it may cost.I found myself in the same situation and I can only support that way of thinking.<br />In a country where everybody and their neighbor shoots at each other,life is very cheap(The US militairy pays $2500 to families of victims in a crossfire).The commander in chief said "bring it on" Why should our men be holier than thou?<br />When this war is said and done they still have their families to take of and that is what counts to them.So let's take them out and get this thing over with before it ends up being a catalyst creating a large group of people with very little respect for human life.

 

[QC]

Re: Haditha

Isn't the Japan scenario different in that the crime was committed during peacetime, not at war? Stationed as opposed to on patrol . . .<br /><br />Yes, good thread rodbolt.

 

[bootle]

Re: Haditha

Originally posted by QC:<br /> Isn't the Japan scenario different in that the crime was committed during peacetime, not at war? Stationed as opposed to on patrol . . .<br /><br />Yes, good thread rodbolt.

There are a variety of technicalities or shades of grey involved here. The war in Iraq is one of those anomalies if we are strictly going by the letter of the law, since a declaration of war was not passed by the congress,<br />congress did however give the president the the authority to use force, which is not the same thing as a declaration of war. Such fine lines of ambiguity leaves the door open for one hell of a lawyer fest.<br />However as i said before, the Japanese precedent is not a senario that is likely to repeat itself in the case of Iraq.<br />The Iraqi judicial system is corrupt and wholly inadequate, the Sadaam trial is a circus, the clowns are boring as hell, more Iraqis probably watched the OJ Simpson trial.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Haditha

Originally posted by WillyBWright:<br />... Why, oh Why can't we find some woman to give this man oral sex so we can impeach him already?

Unlike the hag the last guy brought in, this prez has a nice lookin lady to take care of him.