Help! 15 hp 4 stroke major engine damage

[gatorhead]

Its model # E15R4SSE MAN DATE OF 12/99. what year would tha make this motor?
I bought it from a marina said it had little use to no use as an old man had bought it and died before ever using it.
It ran ok, always seemed lacking a little umph. After starting and running to a spot it always gave me a headache to restart, so I figured carb and rebuilt it. I took it all apart and it was CLEAN. Motor looks like its brand new.

I took it out this past Monday and got stranded and had to paddle in some 6 miles against the current, breaking an oar half way in I ran ok out to the first spot and did the same old thing again. However after I got it started it ran and we were headed to another spot when all the sudden it started bucking and spitting then I heard the noise.

I took the cowl off and water was spitting from the carb when I tried to restart it. It is a pullstart, and there was no compression on it at all. I checked oil and it was full of water, so I figured blown head gasket, head cracked or possibly block. I got it home took the lower cover off and got the valve cover off and found a broken spring on the top cylinder #1 spring. I am not sure of firing order so this would be the top spring as looking at it. The retainer is also chewed up.

I am fixing to tear further into it to see what else is wrong. I bought this motor because I am disabled and I was tired of having to work on old stuff everytime I went out. This seems catastrophic so early into it. I have found exploded diagrams to aide me in repair and I am very well adept to car motors. From what I have found so far I have to buy a whole assembly, I can't just but new springs and retainers etc as I need them. Is there anywhere to get these seperately?

Also in a car motor I would replace all bearings at this point. I am seeing that these are actual bearings is it necessary to replace them at this point? I am ordeing a repair manual for guidance, if there are any online that you guys know of that I could use or any other pertinent info you can give me I sure would appreciate it. I just watched 3k go up in smoke literally with only 4 uses on it. I am on a fixed income and well this really hurts to say the least. I will take ANY advice on this motor I can get with gratitude. For example, anything that can or should be upgraded while I have it all apart. Thanks in advance for the replies.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Help! 15 hp 4 stroke major engine damage

do you know why it failed?

 

[gatorhead]

Re: Help! 15 hp 4 stroke major engine damage

do you know why it failed?

I wish I could say for sure. As I said I bought it from a marina as a slightly used motor, supposedly the old man died before useage.................

I am beginning to think the real condition was not truthfully disclosed. I took the head off just a few minutes ago and found the top exhaust valve stuck open. It has made contact with the piston, minor scuffing on the piston surface, but the valve was also slightly bent, enough so that it wouldn't close. I believe that caused spring failure when the piston smacked the valve.

I looked really closely at the head gasket for signs of failure. I didn't see a complete blow out, however I do see a bad spot. What concerns me is that the head bolts have been removed before, they were marked up. A few were loose. Are these one time useage bolts? Most I have seen are stretch to yield (automotive). There are no visible cracks between valves, and the cylinders are still nicely crosshatched and no gouges. The cam and shaft rockers all move freely and are unmolested as well. The pistons at TDC do not move any indicating rod bearings should be ok.

This is where your input is needed. I would know exactly what to do if it were for an auto motor, but this is marine lol.
Oh and of important note the pee hole function properly as does the impeller. Before this past outing there was some indication of water in the oil. I was told that amount was insignificant and most likely due to condensation, it was in the oil fill cap only so I flushed the motor and change the filter and added new oil. I ran it several times including before we ever left for water on the muffs. Checked oil and it was clean. When I drained it yesterday it was water with a little oil mixed in,looked like creamer instead of the old coffee with cream in it.
The valve being stuck open explains the water back through the carb, water was in the cylinder and was pushed back through there so it seems. However the piston is still sooty as are the head and spark plugs indicating they had never been wet, and they were dry. it could have also been gas I never thought to have my dad smell it, I cant smell anything as my nose was severly damaged in a wreck.
The part on the gasket that looks compromised is from detonation as well, it is black and at the lower left bottom cylinder. From what I can tell that is where the water jackets are and possibly where the water and oil mix came into play. I have to wait for my manual
Sorry for the rambling, I am an avid forum member on several auto sites and I know the more info the easier to help. I have also employed the search button religiously to little effect.
So from here I would like to hear what options I have available to me. From what I can tell an exhaust valve, seal,locks, spring and retainer, and new gasket should get me back to square one. Possibly head bolts as well. I have not found anywhere that sells them individually (except for gasket).

Thanks,
Jack
PS the vessel name is Kwitcherbitchin

 

[jonesg]

Re: Help! 15 hp 4 stroke major engine damage

I think you're on your game, if you removed the lower leg you have a 4 banger engine, its not that much different, no radiator to bother with.

the 2 strokes are baffling, we get auto techs coming here who can't make heads nor tails of them.

the 4 strokes are relatively new compared to the 2 strokes, not an awefull lot of posts concerning them for you to search through...yet.

I'm surprised the 4 strokes have interference heads, are they timing belt ? is it broken?

anyway it looks like a head rebuild, I think stretch bolts can be re-used one time but if you don't know its best to ditch em.

I don't see how a blown head gasket puts a valve into a piston though.
Something let go.

 

[gatorhead]

Re: Help! 15 hp 4 stroke major engine damage

I wish I knew exactly what the cause was as I know the effect lol. I know that sometimes mechanical parts just fail but it doesn't ease my concerns when I have to put it all back together.

I have found at least one site with parts that I can order individually, HOLY COW are they expensive. $30 for a micro valve lol.

Yeah it is only a two cylinder and it is a belt driven system, the belt is in new condition, from what I can tell I would guesstimate clearance, or quench to be at or about .060 including the head gasket. The piston come all the way out to the edge of the block, maybe set in .005-010. Very small combustion chambers on the head so I SUPPOSE THE CASE IS the valve spring let go, or a lock came out, which I cannot find the other one and the valve was shot through the head when the cam spun up and then the piston slappped it back into the head until the point at which it bent.

I have also figured that you should CCP your post until you are sure it posts, wayyyy too many server busy errors here

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Help! 15 hp 4 stroke major engine damage

I suspect that you have a more serious problem than just a failed valve spring there. I believe a complete teardown of the powerhead is in order, so you can inspect everything fully. As long as you have it as far apart as you already do, you might as well tear it down completely and do a full inspection.

The failed valve would not allow water into the cylinder by itself. A blown head gasket would, of course, and that may be the initial source of the problem. I suspect that the valve problem may have its origin in water intrusion causing a hydraulic lock on that cylinder while the engine was running. Bad news, there.

So, by doing a full teardown, you'll be able to inspect connecting rods, crankshaft, cam, and other parts that may have been damaged.

It's entirely possible that you'll have to write off the whole powerhead. In fact, I'm betting that will end up being the case.

I don't know what you paid for the outboard, but I imagine it was more than you wanted to.

It may well be that your best recourse will be to replace the outboard, if the powerhead is completely trashed.

I'm sorry such a thing happened to you.

By the way, that's a 2000 model.

 

[gatorhead]

Re: Help! 15 hp 4 stroke major engine damage

No signs of water into the cylinders at all. Thats the good news of the bad. There is zero play in the crank or pistons after TDC OR BDC. No signs of stress in the cylinders either.

Cam is out and inspected, checks out good, so does rocker shaft assembly. I am taking the head in to be evaluated by a machinist to check for warpage or cracks as well as to inspect and or replace valve guide if needed.

I will continue to update as I go, as well as graciously accept any other ideas or advice

Yes it is a 2000- model I figured it out when I tried various online parts dealers, the model number doesn't match the man date, but since it was a december date it went as the next year model.