Help... many issues (lots of pics, not dial-up friendly)

freak007

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 19, 2008
Messages
126
Ok, first the boat... 1984 Rinker V170 powered with a 2.5L 120 HP I/O, max RPM is 4300. I believe the stern drive unit is a Alpha One (can anyone confirm or deny?) the gear ratio is stamped 1.98R. Dry weight is 1700, typical "wet" weight is ~2550, the boat is used for cruising/tubing/occasional skiing

The problem(s);

When slowly throttling up from idle it will sputter and die around 1500 RPM. If I go from idle (in gear) to WOT it would stumble around 1500, almost die, and then pick up again. I have replaced the plugs (properly gapped), replaced the fuel filter and set the timing/checked the advance (8* @ 700 RPM in gear, 37* @ 1900 RPM). The points have been switched to electronic ignition by a previous owner. I believe a carb rebuild is in order...


When I got the boat it had a 15 1/4 x 21 prop, it had trouble coming out of the hole with a total weight of just under 2200 pounds. Max RPM was 3600 (trimmed for max RPM). Max speed was 35 (according to the dream-o-meter)... it would take it a good minute or so to come on plane...

Today we swapped on a 14 1/4 x 17 to try tubing behind... we were loaded to 2700 pounds... it still had trouble coming on plane... But it was better than the other prop @ 2200... With the boat at 2500 pounds and another 200 on the tube max RPM was 3200 (trimmed for max RPM). I don't remember looking at it before we through the tube out... Max speed is unknown because the dream-o-meter went on strike today...

After we had been running around for a bit today, the engine started to get a little warm (160*, it normally runs 110 with a new thermostat) so we put it to an idle until it got down to 140* then shut it down for about 10 minutes (extended cigarette break) then started it up... Temp was back to normal, so I put it in gear and slowly accelerated to 1000 RPM (no tuber) once it got to 1000 I put it wide open (to avoid stalling @1500) it started to accelerate, at @2000 I heard a *POW* then the engine free revved until I cut the throttle (about 4000 RPM)... At that point in time I had no forward or reverse...


My first question is where do I start to look for the source of this "pow" so I can get it mobile again?? Once I get that fixed it will be getting a carb kit (assuming a compression check comes back normal)...
 

Limited-Time

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5,820
Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

Spun prop hub or bad coupler are the first two things to check. If the coupler gave way the engine will over heat as the impeller is no longer being driven. As for the stumble.............sounds like the accelerator pump is going bad,
 

freak007

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

How do I check the prop hub to know for sure?

I am not sure it is the coupler because the boat was still mobile (under its own power) after it started to overheat.... it wasn't until after I let it cool that all H3ll broke loose...

one more thing... when I move the control lever there isn't even a "clunk" from it engaging into gear... it acts like there is nothing there. The gear selector levers and cables do move though the gears (or at least seem to)
 

djvan

Chief Petty Officer
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May 3, 2003
Messages
411
Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

If you can get alook at the driveshaft (directly behind your engine) see if it rotates with the starter or while running. No rotate= bad coupler.

I am speaking from a mechanical standpoint and have not had any experience in this matter. Just seems to me that would point to a blown coupler.

I am sure others will jump in soon.

DougV>
 

Bondo

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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

My first question is where do I start to look for the source of this "pow" so I can get it mobile again??

Ayuh,....

Take a sample of the Gear Oil from the Drain plug,.....
Any Water,..?? Metal Filings,..??

There's a Good Chance that the Vertical Shaft sheared off at the o-ring groove.....
Or,... A Shattered Gear...

Your other Issues will probably be Fixed with either a Carb Kit, or a New Carb...
 

JustJason

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Aug 27, 2007
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5,321
Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

sounds like multiple problems and i'll start with this....
37 degrees is to much for a 2.5....
I dunno the spec, i can check after i've had more coffee.....
but at 37 your gonna start knocking like crazy...
 

freak007

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 19, 2008
Messages
126
Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

37* total (8* initial + 29* advance) @1900 is (according to my understanding of manual #10) the fastest acceptable curve... I do not get any audible pinging on 91 octane

drive shaft is tough to see, but it appears to be spinning while the engine runs...


Fluid sample runs clear, but when "pooled" appears blue-grey... no signs of water (not milky) and no visible metal shavings...
 

Bondo

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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

one more thing... when I move the control lever there isn't even a "clunk" from it engaging into gear... it acts like there is nothing there. The gear selector levers and cables do move though the gears (or at least seem to)

Ayuh,.... That tells Me it's Not the Prop Hub.....

Time to Pull the drive,+ have a Look....
 

freak007

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Messages
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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

How intensive is pulling the drive? This is my first boat, and I have never wrenched on one before, but I am an ASE certified auto mechanic so I do know my way around a tool box...

I do not have any manual for the out drive... is there a PDF one that I can look at to become familiar with my upcoming "adventure"?
 

freak007

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Messages
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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

Thanks much!! Now I have the RIGHT manual for my engine as well as the outdrive :tup:

now when you say "pull the drive" are you talking just the lower unit, or the WHOLE drive... like from the transom back?
 

Bondo

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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

now when you say "pull the drive" are you talking just the lower unit, or the WHOLE drive... like from the transom back?

Ayuh,..... Go read the Book,..... You'll get it.....
 

freak007

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

Ok here goes... I am going to pull the "gear housing" and see what king of mess I can make... pictures will follow...
 

freak007

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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

Mission complete... kinda...

I when I drained the rest of the gear oil there was a ton of metal shavings in the last bit of oil...

Looks to me like the water pump quit and overheated everything real nicely... I wasn't able to check the propeller shaft side play, but it has enough that I can feel it (quite likely more than .003"). The large shaft (water pump drive?) spins, but is very stiff, the small one spins easily... when I turn the prop shaft the small shaft tries to spin but doesn't... The "Rubber Centrifugal Slinger" at the base of the water pump drive is also badly cracked...


Now what?

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/IMG_0730.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/IMG_0733.jpg
 

freak007

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

Ok, I just did a little more reading and looking... here is what I have found...

No gasket between driveshaft housing and gear case

No key to keep water pump impeller anchored to drive shaft

The gear case has been damaged before (evidence of welding), as well as a broken cavitation plate (covered with a hydrofoil/stabilizer)

Unit will only go into reverse (shift shaft will only rotate ~90* CCW), even with the shift shaft in "reverse" the prop shaft is not meshing with the drive shaft.


The splines in the drifeshaft housing that the driveshaft mates with turn with the engine

The shift shaft coupler in the drive shaft housing moves with the controls...



It seems to me that the water pump was replaced and not properly installed, when it became loaded down the waterpump quit causing a failure deeper in the gear case (sheared gears?)

I only have about 3 hours of run time on the boat since I got it, 1 hour of which was when it was hooked up to a garden hose, 20 - 30 minutes test drive before changing the prop, and the remainder (trying) to tube behind it... Looking at the "special" tools and the time involved in further dissassembly/rebuild I think it is probably in my best intrest to just get a new/used/rebuilt gear case... any other thoughts? Or do you think it would be more economical to have someone rebuild it for me (keep in mind the case might have more undisclosed damage)


At any rate unless someone can convince me that what happened was just a fluke (or something I caused), I think I am going to have to choke slam the previous owner...
 

Bondo

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Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

I think it is probably in my best intrest to just get a new/used/rebuilt gear case...

Ayuh,....

The aftermarket SEI drives are Very Atractive.....;)
 

freak007

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Messages
126
Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

question - I get the understanding that the little pin sticking out of the top of the drive shaft is the "preload pin" that distinguishes my drive as a "R" drive... can I use a Alpha lower on it or not??

Is there anything in the upper portion of the outdrive that I should inspect/replace while it apart?
 

freak007

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Messages
126
Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

So I have identified more issues... and uploaded more pictures...


Here are the pictures of what appears (to me) to be welds on the gear case to repair prior damage... is this case even worth rebuilding?

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70069.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70068.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70074.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70075.jpg



and the reason I cannot move under my own power:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70065.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70066.jpg
 

freak007

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
126
Re: Help... many issues

Re: Help... many issues

further inspection revealed the bellows were leaking as well, the gimbal bearing is a little rough so it will be getting replaced... The U-joints are still smooth... Judging from the pics, anything else I should be concerned with?

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70055.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70062.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/freak007/STA70061.jpg


What tools do I need to do the gimbal bearing and the bellows? I remeber reading on one website that I needed something like $400 in "special" tools... what do I REALLY need, and what can I get by without?
 
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