HELP! Water in lower unit and shop is worthless!!!

[jimbobcooter]

So I noticed I had some water in the lower unit/gearcase of my Evinrude E120TLERC so I drained it and added a small amount of pressure. Then checking with soapy water I noticed no leaks except for when the driveshaft was manipulated side to side air would shoot out. Purchased a new drive shaft bearing assembly with new seal and installed. Ran the motor for about 5hrs and again I have water in the gearcase...not a lot that I can tell but definitely milky (using Evinrude HPF).
So I took it o the shop for a professional pressure/vac test and they siad nothing is wrong...no issues. Refilled with oil and now want .75 hrs of labor and $10+ for oil =$78

If pressure/vac test are perfect how am I getting water in lower unit?

Previous trip to the shop was excessive water pressure not allowing engine to get up to temp with was resolved by installing an oversized gourmet to get more water out the overflow.

I will handle the shop and their ridiculous request for labor cost this afternoon, but I want to fix my boat...any help is appreciated.

 

[Crosbyman]

↵I feel for you but his labor costs were likely posted. I had a plumber come to my house lately to see MY OWN video of a leaky pipe and work to be done.

I took my camera fish inside the wall recorded the leaky spot on video and showed him was was to be done..

Cost...$60 travel to my house and minimum 1 hour $90 total $150... plus 15% taxes ....$172 to see my video





Scheduled the jobin the same week and had to pay again minimum 60$ travel plus the job he did.. at 90$/H plus his helper $60/H and parts... total $1300



you paid for his knowledge and tools etc... I just hope he is competent

 

[jimbobcooter]

Totally understand paying someone for their time/knowledge/expertise. Except the owner told me two weeks ago he would do that test for free! Furthermore, we all know that they did not spend 45min testing my gearcase. They hooked up the press/vac/gauge and walked away. So now we are talking 45min of labor to drain and fill gearcase oil. Does not take an expert to perform that task!

Besides my soon to be non-existent relationship with the incompetent shop....

Does anyone have any suggestions where to look next if I still have water leaking into the gearcase after a passed a pressure/vac test?

 

[flyingscott]

Are the washers on the drain and fill screws good.

Why are you so mad about the charge if you don't think it takes an expert to perform the test why did you have one do it. You could have done it yourself and saved the money. Sounds like you are getting charged fairly most shops charge 1 hr minimum for anything. His labor seems cheap as well since most places are well over $100 an Hr

 

[jimbobcooter]

Washers are new every time they were removed. I did a pressure test myself and it was checked ok (which I told the shop) yet water still entering gearcase somehow.

The issue was not fixed, I learned nothing new, and there was no mention of what else could be checked! Obviously, water is getting into the gearcase from somewhere!

 

[semp3rfi]

Someone else may have to correct me if i am wrong, may be that the shift rod o-ring is damaged allowing water to seep in when you shift.
Edit: And I believe on your engine there are 2 o-rings if im right, so its a possibility

 

[jimbobcooter]

Washers are replaced after every fill/drain...they are good and should show on a press/vac test (I would think)! I did perform the test myself/ replaced the drive shaft washer and it is still leaking water (all of which the shop knows).

They have provided no expert opinion/offered no new suggestions on what might be causing the leak. So I am supposed to run it a few more times/do more damage to my gearcase and then what?

Let me ask this question another way! I LOVE MY SHOP AND THEY ARE THE BEST MECHANICS IN THE WORLD. INFACT I FEEL LIKE I AM STEALING FROM THEM B/C THEIR PRICES ARE SO LOW AND THEIR WORK SO TIMELY AND OVER THE TOP!

So, I want to fix a leaky gearcase myself!

Now that I have confirmed no leaks on a press/vac test; no bent prop shaft...where/how else could water be entering the gearcase?

 

[David Young]

My wife's 'blood relative' owns a boat sales and repair shop. Last summer they kept our boat for 4 weeks and sprayed some carburetor cleaner in the carbs, said they rebuilt the fuel pump too (i don't think so). Charged us the going rate they charge to strangers

I bought me a Factory Repair Manual and have done several things to my boat myself, for the price of the parts. I will burn my boat before i let anyone else touch it

Sorry for the venting.....

 

[jimmbo]

Is there a seal on the bottom of the water pump, in addition to the seal on the top of the bearing assembly? Some pumps have a seal and if it goes bad it can allow water thru with enough pressure to get by the bearing seal

 

[jimbobcooter]

Is there a seal on the bottom of the water pump, in addition to the seal on the top of the bearing assembly? Some pumps have a seal and if it goes bad it can allow water thru with enough pressure to get by the bearing seal

Jimmbo you may be on to something here. Last time it was in the shop was due to plug fouling/misfiring. They found no thermos and a hole in the base gasket. They spent a month and a half getting it up to "close" to operating temp by placing some oversized gormet to allow excessive water pressure out of the blow-by passage. They also added a larger tell tale hose for more water to escape.

It would make sense that is water pressure is so high it would push past the double drive shaft gaskets. Make sense to anyone else?

Also note semp3rfi: that there is an o-ring b/w the impeller and the pump housing plate...under the housing plate there are 2 seals in the drive shaft bearing housing (factory installed)

 

[F_R]

I'm glad you said something positive about the shop.

 

[boobie]

You know there are 2 different pressure and vacuum settings for doing these tests. Some times they don't show up on both of them. Been there.

 

[jimbobcooter]

Which is why I took it to the "PROFESSIONALS"....in case I was not hitting all the marks. They did 15pis pressure and vacuum for 10 min each with no leaks on each test.

Please elaborate on the 2 different test....boobie

 

[jakedaawg]

1st at 7-1/2 psi. Then ~15 psi. In your case with previous complaints, all shafts/ rods should be actuated. Yours is most likely shift rod though.

Easy way to do this is place pressure tester on unit. Pressurize. Place in tub. Wait an hour. Come back and look for bubbles. Actuate shift rod. Look for bubbles. Etc.

I would charge more than $78
For this.

 

[boobie]

I'd do the pressure test first at 6 psi, then at 14 psi. Next would be 6 " Hg and then 14 "Hg. I have found leaks at the lesser amounts where the didn't show up on the greater amounts. Always rotate and shift lower unit when doing these tests.

 

[jimbobcooter]

Thanks for the info guys! I guess the PROFESSIONAL TECHS at the shop FAILED to perform the appropriate test. 10 min @15psi is not a long enough duration according to the book and you guys!

I can add that when I died the pressure test initially I noticed that if the drive shaft was turned pressure held, but if you wiggled it back and forth the air just shot out of the seals...I would think there would not be much play back and forth side to side when installed though....could this be a more likely culprit than the shift rod seal?

Also it sounds like the possibility of water pressure blowing by the new driveshaft seals is unlikely. Correct?

 

[racerone]

If it does not have it now you might want to install a new shift rod cover.----New covers use 2 o-rings in them.

 

[jimbobcooter]

Is there anyway to tell if it is new or old without removing the cover to see if there are 2 rings?

The "PROS" also mentioned the fact that I have a 2 piece drive shaft and there maybe some wobble associated with that allowing water to enter the gear case. Any truth to that?

My plan is to do a true pressure/vac test before I start ordering/replacing more parts because I have already spent over $100 replacing the drive shaft bearing assembly/seals.

Thanks for the the input thus far everyone!

 

[racerone]

It would cost you a gasket to look and see if there are 2 o-rings or not.-----When the driveshaft is inserted / supported into the crankshaft there is no wobble !-----And in my opinion a 20 year old gearcase with lots of hrs on it needs a seal kit.------The shafts rubbing on the seals at 5000 / 2500 RPM do wear them out !!!

 

[jakedaawg]

When you say "drive shaft" are you referring to the vertical shaft or the prop shaft?