help with timing adjustment johnson 30 hp

[maineiac5586]

I have a 1994 Johnson 30 hp tiller electric start. I am trying to adjust the max timing stopper because when I got the outboard the stopper was adjusted 1/2 to 3/4 inch away from the edge of the timing plate. I am using the Jim Reeves timing method (I have both spark plugs out (spark plug jumper set to 7/16" on #1 cylinder), I have the throttle open fully and timing light hooked up to coil #1. During the crank test before any adjustment the timing was way advanced. The problem I have is that in order to achieve 26 degrees timing (4 degrees less than stated 30 degree indicated on starter motor as per reeve's test procedure) I have to adjust the stopper screw so far in that only a little nub sticks out (not enough to get the lock nut back on). I also noticed at 26 degrees the throttle plate is hardly opened and the roller is not making contact with the timing plate. Any idea what I am missing here or doing wrong? I don't see any way to move the timing plate closer to the stopper location in order to have enough adjustment thread of the stopper bolt sticking out (without severely advancing the timing). Help here would be appreciated (I tried following the procedure in the repair manual but to no avail)

The pics show how everything is when the timing plate is against the stopper (26 degrees set) (with stopper screw screwed way in), also look at the roller distance from the plate and throttle plate position

 

[oldboat1]

I haven’t worked on that motor, so my suggestions may be off the mark.

It appears that you are trying to do the “link and sync” — coordinating timing advance and throttle operation. As a general point, this is done with the throttle at its lowest/slowest setting. In that position, the roller will not contact the timing plate. As the plate advances during throttle up (say, with use of the twist grip), the roller must be adjusted to first contact the plate at the mark on the plate or cam. By way of the roller and cam follower, the throttle plate will begin to open at that point.

With that adjustment made, throttle operation will be synchronized with timing advance.

 

[maineiac5586]

Thank you but that picture of the roller is the position it is in when the timing base is at max timing (all the way against the stop, the roller makes contact with the timer base when the throttle is lower. I am mostly concerned with the stopper for the max timing not being long enough?? not enough threads sticking out when timing is at spec.

 

[Newyota]

Thank you but that picture of the roller is the position it is in when the timing base is at max timing (all the way against the stop, the roller makes contact with the timer base when the throttle is lower. I am mostly concerned with the stopper for the max timing not being long enough?? not enough threads sticking out when timing is at spec.

Did you get pm I sent?It will help. Seems the brass stopper on the rod going to cam roller assy is not adjusted properly..Almost like it is at the very end of the rod. Don't see a pict. Of that?When you said the stopper was 1/2 to 3/4 away was it in gear or neutral. You need to do the link,sync first..The timing really does not need changed unless someone messed with it..On my motor the threads are about 1/2 inch or so out with the lock nut on..30degrees supposedly. I would back the timing stopper out to about what I said and do link,sync and then do timing..

 

[maineiac5586]

I'll check the stopper position tonight. Will adjusting that change my timing issue with the max timing stopper adjustment screw having to be turned in so far there is only a nub sticking out not enough to screw the locknut back on?if i back the stopper out to where I can get the nut on it I wind up being advanced. ???

 

[maineiac5586]

Is there any way the timing plate can move closer to the max stop screw without advancing the timing? Again, in order to get the timing to read 26 degrees at max (4 degrees under as per reeves test) I have to screw the stop screw in clockwise so far that there isn't enough screw sticking out to get the locknut back on. Surely somebody has had this happen?

 

[Newyota]

Is there any way the timing plate can move closer to the max stop screw without advancing the timing? Again, in order to get the timing to read 26 degrees at max (4 degrees under as per reeves test) I have to screw the stop screw in clockwise so far that there isn't enough screw sticking out to get the locknut back on. Surely somebody has had this happen?

Link/sync will not change timing of the motor.Just timing of throttle opening.OK.. I did just see the unfocused image in the background of you first picture of the rod with the brass block on it.If you were in gear and at full throttle and your butterfly was not horizontal that needs adjusted or you got some other strange problem..I just read "JOE" Reeves method.Thru me off for a minute.Did you "wire" it fast like he statedWere you having trouble with the engine that you changed or checked the timing?

 

[maineiac5586]

I just bought this OUTBOARD. I only checked into this because I noticed the timing plate was very far away from the max timing stopper when at full throttle. I will recheck the butterfly throttle rod but don't know what to do with this timing stopper. The way it was it would never make contact with the stopper. Yes I wired the timing plate to full as stated in test procedure. This is a weird one or i am missing something. I borrowed a timing light to compare to mine. I'll report my findings this evening

 

[cubsfan02449]

As newyota stated above be sure the shift level is engaged in forward gear fully. The prop may need to be spun while engaging to forward gear. This will allow for a proper lync and sync. I have a 1988 30 hp tiller electric start.

I have attached pictures showing the position of cam roller, long rod with stopper block and max timing bumpstopper. The first 2 photo's are at wide open throttle and the next 3 are at idle. maybe they will help you. although i havent ever taken a timing light to my motor. It idles well and runs strong at all rpm's.

 

[maineiac5586]

ok thanks. The shift lever is in full forward position. Before I check mine to compare to yours does yours go to almost full throttle and stay there or does the twist grip have a spring like motion when turning to full throttle? hope that made sense. Results of timing light comparisons were both timing lights are giving the same readings so I assume they are ok.

 

[Newyota]

I just bought this OUTBOARD. I only checked into this because I noticed the timing plate was very far away from the max timing stopper when at full throttle. I will recheck the butterfly throttle rod but don't know what to do with this timing stopper. The way it was it would never make contact with the stopper. Yes I wired the timing plate to full as stated in test procedure. This is a weird one or i am missing something. I borrowed a timing light to compare to mine. I'll report my findings this evening

Was the motor running when you noticed this?You have an throttle cable adjustment on this if I am not mistaken on the same side below the timeing screw?If that is not adjusted properly I would think you are not going to full throttle.Is this a possibility?

 

[maineiac5586]

no but only because I didn't try to run it first. I just bought it 2 days ago. . I was checking it over before I rebuild the carb and replace the water pump. it has good spark on both cylinders and 130 psi in both cylinders.

 

[Newyota]

no but only because I didn't try to run it first. I just bought it 2 days ago. . I was checking it over before I rebuild the carb and replace the water pump. it has good spark on both cylinders and 130 psi in both cylinders.

Good idea to go over things, but changing the timing screw right away before running may have been premature.Did you get my pm and go to the source I mentioned?I read a post where someone did what you are doing and they could only get to 27deg due to running out of adjustment with the Joe Reeve method.Sounds like your situation.Apperantly you may only have to set at 27-28 using Joes method then finish on the water according to the post I just read.

 

[maineiac5586]

Yes. If I put the timing stop back to where it was originally and check the timing it is showing 32 degrees. I did see on here where someone stated that they had to put theirs exactly at the recommended timing degree and not subtract 4 degrees

 

[Newyota]

Good luck and let us know how you make out.We all learn from each other on this site.

 

[maineiac5586]

Message for cubsfan. In picture number 2 can you tell me where the end of the plastic timing cam (the opposite end of the stopper) is lining up with what number on the part number of the plastic throttle roller LEVER? (when at full throttle) In other words where my finger is pointing and over which of these numbers.is the end of that plastic cam lining up with? You need to look at it direct head on not from an angle. I know this is kind of redneck but let's see where I am compared to yours

 

[cubsfan02449]

It looks like it’s lined up with the second digit from left to right at wide open throttle. The digit is a 9. I will double check when home tonight. My throttle handle does not spring back. It stays at wide open unless I move it back manually.

Something I didn’t add earlier: I bought a tiny tach to check rpm’s and can only get 4900 rpm’s out of this motor. Should be around 5200? Boat is a 16ft Jon. 13 pitch prop. I have added a wood floor, bow mount trolling motor, and 2 deep cycle batteries under the new front floor. So I’m not sure if this extra weight is what’s not allowing me to reach max rpm’s or if my motor is underperforming.

 

[oldboat1]

Pushing a good amount of weight for 30 24 yr. old ponies.... Make sure there isn't also some water weight under the floor (e.g., water logged foam).

 

[maineiac5586]

Ok cubs fan. Thanks

 

[cubsfan02449]

After eyeballing the location of the plastic roller cam at wide open throttle it is closer to the first number. It looks to be just to the left of the number 3.

Oldboat1 that’s what I figured when not being able to get full rpm’s it is a lot of weight up there. I lost about 3 mph after the weight. I threw out the old foam that had mouse tunnels all through it. I’ll have to get some new foam and tuck it up under there.