Honda vs. others...

[DocTide]

I just recently purchased a 14' mckee craft and wanted to power it with a 25-30HP motor. I have never owned a boat this size with an engine this powerful and had a few simple questions. One would be, which would be better to get in this small boat; 2stroke or 4stroke? Or is this just personal preference. Also, I put this in Honda section because at the moment, I am considering the Honda 25-30 because it has a 5year warranty. If any of you purchased new, did you get this warranty and is it worth it? (Honda seems to be a little more expensive) How does it compare to Evinrude, Merc, Yamaha etc..? Also, this boat is a '71 hull and while there are no serious signs of a bad transom, I am just nervous getting a permanent engine that drills through the transom. Would the people who install the engine be able to make sure its in tip top shape before this, or should I get a "portable" version with clamps? Last but not least is cable steering and ignition: I would like to have both pull start and electric start though I dont think Honda makes this. I am building a small side console, and apart from the engine, would like to know how much it would cost is all I wanted was the throttle, and steering cables to the console. Some tiller versions of Yamaha seem to be over $500 cheaper than the remote, and it seems to only costs ~$400 to convert, so that would save ~$100, just add some DIY work which I enjoy anyways.

ALL info, would be great. This is my first boat and I want to get a new engine so I can actually go out and enjoy myself for a long time. I just need help on the basics!!

Thanks.

 

[pvanv]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Best bang for the buck would be Tohatsu. And not just because I work on them. They are the lowest-cost OB's, hp for hp in the US. All Tohatsu 4-strokes have pull start capability, even the electric-start units. Tohatsu is the oldest OB manufacturer in Japan (more than 50 years), and makes the motors that get re-badged as Mercury, 30 hp and under. And, thanks to the EPA, you will not be buying a 2-stroke (new) in that size, unless it is an expensive DFI unit, such as Evinrude has. As for warranty... not a big deal. These new 4-strokes seldom suffer any warranty work, and even that is typically in the first 30 or maybe 90 days. They have clamps (tightened with a wrench) in addition to the through bolts.

 

[WN2712NJ]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Does your boat have a CG plate indicating the max HP? You probably don't want to exceed that - depending on your state laws, you might be breaking the law, and you would definitely be lawsuit bait if someone ever got hurt on your boat.

I have a 20HP Tohatsu 4stroke with electric and pull start. It did have major warranty service - the entire powerhead was replaced to fix a oil leak. But I was pretty satisfied with how Tohatsu handled this.

AFAIK, the 20HP Tohatsu/Nissan/Merc is pretty much the same 2 cylinder powerheads as the 9.9 and 15HP motors with the same badging. They just do something with the carb or controls to limit the HP output. But the 25/30 HP motors are bigger (3 cylinder) motors that weigh significantly more than the 2 cylinder motors. Which may be an issue for you since 4strokes are heavy beasts anyway. That's why I went with the 20 on our 14 foot tinny, not a 25.

Also, I think motors >20HP or with remote controls generally have to be dealer-installed as a condition of the warranty. Check the manufacturers website to see.

YMMV,

-dm

 

[DocTide]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Great info, I will look into Tohatsu. As for the boat recommendations, there is no CG sticker. I checked the 1971 McKee Craft brochure I found online, and it says 60MAX HP rating. But I am weary about that. How else would I go about finding this info out? Does Tohatsu have an online dealer I can see prices at? Also, how long is the warranty?

 

[cp]

Re: Honda vs. others...

...which would be better to get in this small boat; 2stroke or 4stroke?

4-stroke is 'greener' and less hassle (no worries adding oil to the fuel) but more complex, although modern design and materials have reduced their weight and made their cost competitive. They are, very basically, car engines. Honda has the longest comes-with-the-motor warranty, so that is one indication of the confidence they have in the reliability and durability of their motors. While you should not need to use the warranty on any well built motor, you will have to service it so unless you intend to do it all yourself, more important than the warranty is service availability. Availability of a dealer/service center near you should be a large factor in your selection of a brand.

I would like to have both pull start and electric start though I dont think Honda makes this.

The Honda BF25 and BF30 motors come with both electric and pull start capability so your desire for both is a standard feature, not an option.

...nervous getting a permanent engine that drills through the transom.

It's standard procedure to through-bolt larger HP motors to the transom because it's safer that way. Larger HP engines are not supplied with clamps for that reason. The folks who do the mounting should be able to tell you if the backing material inside the ransom is solid, rotted, or whatever, once they drill into it.

...how much it would cost is (sic) all I wanted was the throttle, and steering cables to the console.

A Honda remote steering control retails for about $350 and a 15' Teleflex QCII steering cable (for example) runs about $100. Well worth it for the ease and convenience of operation and the safety of operating from a secure console.

I'm obviously a Honda user and believer - mine has taken me out and more importantly brought me home every single time for nearly 13 years now. Tohatsu may be a fine motor too but you really should consider a brand that has a dealer/service network convenient to you.

Just my 2?. Good luck.

 

[DocTide]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Thanks a ton cp!! Great info. Being here in South Florida I think I have most of the big brand dealers near for service. I am going to check for the Hondas and start comparing prices!

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Honda vs. others...

"Tohatsu may be a fine motor too but you really should consider a brand that has a dealer/service network convenient to you."

That's extremely funny for reasons that will become apparent over the next few month

 

[cp]

Re: Honda vs. others...

"Tohatsu may be a fine motor too but you really should consider a brand that has a dealer/service network convenient to you."

That's extremely funny for reasons that will become apparent over the next few month

TG - My statement was not a knock on Tohatsu - I stated they may be fine motors. I merely suggested that the OP consider purchasing a brand that has a dealer/service network convenient to him.

Does Tohatsu not have a dealer/service network, or will they be doing something comical with them over the next few months?

Or did you not take the time to read and understand things before you shot from the lip? A guru should be wise and understanding, not quick to judge, especially based on erroneous impression.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Dude...You took my remark the wrong way. There is something in the works concerning both Tohatsu and Honda that I am not at liberty to discuss. Your remark will become funny when that information becomes public. Take your own advice and be wise and understanding, not quick to judge, especially based on an erroneous impression

PS The Tohatsu dealer network is twice times the size of the Honda network...For right now...Not that it really matters. If a dealer network size was important then everyone would only buy Mercury's. I do agree with you that a convenient service dealer is very important and honestly I don't think either one of us has anything to offended about.

 

[DocTide]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Ok, well I decided to go Tohatsu. The only thing I found that seems to bother me is the price of the tiller vs. remote. It seems its around $1k more for a remote... That doesnt seem right, so I did some searching and found this:

http://www.tohatsuoutboards.com/Tohatsu-FAQ-Remote-Control-Conversion.html

Shows it has all the parts need minus throttle control/steering cables. Both of which can be found quite cheap ~$100 each. Making this entire conversion around ~$700. I was looking at models MFS25BS, a 25HP manual start tiller for $3980 MSRP, or the MFS30BL the same 30HP version for $4.5k. The remote models of these engines are over $1000 more than these tillers... Of course they have power trim and tilt which I dont need atm. This will be going on a 14' McKee craft, weighing in at about ~700lbs. Do you think the 25 will get it on a plane? Id love to save some money, but still want some power to kick around on the water.

Thanks!

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Honda vs. others...

It's only a couple of hundred more for the remote model engine. But, you are not allowed to buy either one in a box so installation becomes an additional cost. Yes, it will get it on plane. But, it's a bit small and it's not going to be especially speedy.


Edit: Obviously the difference in price between electric start, PT, etc is a larger difference than the "couple of hundred". However, Once you add in the control box assembly, steering link, control cables, and SRC kit you are at $600.00 plus on a manual start engine. You would be much better off to pop for the remote model up front.

 

[DocTide]

Re: Honda vs. others...

I see, I was thinking about that as well. Plus I would much rather not try and install this on a brand new engine in fear of warranty void issues or anything else. Are you a dealer btw? (Sorry if this is not allowed) because my twin brother lives in the Tampa area and I would have no problem going up there to get some Tohatsu engine work installed or done...

hehe, Thanks.

EDIT: Also, what could I expect to pay for an installation of this? If I go out and buy the steering cables, and throttle cables, what else would I need? Control box? How much would it cost for them to install the new motor to transom, attach steering cables, and throttle cables? Would it be an easy thing to do, and much cheaper if I did control and steering cables myself? I can see this 5k motor costing over 6k, to put on a boat not even worth 1k... Which would be a bummer.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Yes, I am a dealer. The remote model comes with everything so you wouldn't need to make any purchase other than your steering system. Installation varies with the difficulty of the installation. As little as $600.00 or as much as $1000.00. You are not allowed, by Tohatsu, to do any kind of installation yourself. Dealers are not allowed to give you an engine in a box.

 

[pvanv]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Yes, I am a dealer. The remote model comes with everything so you wouldn't need to make any purchase other than your steering system. Installation varies with the difficulty of the installation. As little as $600.00 or as much as $1000.00. You are not allowed, by Tohatsu, to do any kind of installation yourself. Dealers are not allowed to give you an engine in a box.

Theoretically, that assures a correct installation. Converting to remote, and doing all the installation gets labor-intensive, and usually ends up costing more... for a possibly-questionable installation. Best to let a dealer (who does this all the time) do it faster, more accurately, and more safely.

 

[DocTide]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Yes, now the question is 25 or 30. I know people always say, "You wont complain about having too much power" but I am concerned about the total price of the 30 compared to the 25HP. Is the 5HP a huge difference? The boat is old, and possible water is inside the hull, so it is heavy. The transome feels solid, but this is my first fiberglass boat so I am not positive. Do any of you off the top of your head have an idea of total cost for the engine+installation+the parts that Tohatsu doesnt supply so I can get a better idea what I will be spending?

When I go to get it installed, do the mechanics there tell you if the transom is too messed up to mount on? What happens if that is the case? I just want to cover all of my bases and figure out precisely what I want so I can get out on the water with as little mishaps as possible.

Thanks pvanv, and TG

 

[just_crsn]

Re: Honda vs. others...

DocTide, i have a 2006 25 efi 4 stroke mercury which is a tohatsu. i have a 16ft jon boat (300LBS) moves my boat about 27-30mph. Your boat is much heavier, I would go to the 30hp because of that fact. Normally I would tell you to save your money on the difference of 5 hp. But I am thiking in your case a 30hp would be a better choice. These are excellent motors, I have only had problems with my lower unit but iam a duck hunter so I am hard on my motor. ......all my own doing.... Operator abuse.

 

[pvanv]

Re: Honda vs. others...

If we are rigging a motor and find a rotted transom, we stop and call the customer. No point in having a damaged boat or legal problems down the road. The MFS30B ECU is different, and that's how they get the difference in HP. The weight is identical. If the wallet and the boat are prepared for it, go with the 30.

 

[DocTide]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Great. Is this the type of steering cables I would need?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Tele...at_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item53e05265a0

So would that be everything I need on my end before I get an engine?

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Yep

 

[DocTide]

Re: Honda vs. others...

Great, I see that most places sell at MSRP, but boats.net has a big discount. Do any of you guys match prices, or have these same discounts? It seems like they would ship it to the nearest Tohatsu dealer for instal, is this normal?