how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

[210reata]

I have a 2004 Ranger Reata with a 225 VMAX OX66.<br />Every since the rig was brand new, there has been a vibration (almost all the time) at the lower RPM's (below 2000) and even when she is warmed up. The engine smokes even after it has warmed up - she often smokes a lot at start up if shes been sitting for 20 or 30 minutes.<br /><br />I've had it in the shop 4 going on 5 times. Every time, they fix something, then tell me it's all normal.<br /><br />This last time I test rode the boat with a technician who confirmed my problems and agreed they were not normal - after one month in the shop, I have Yamaha calling me and telling me that it's normal. <br /><br />What are your experiences? None of my previous 2-strokes smoke after they were warmed up, and none of them vibrated like this one - <br /><br />Any comments?<br />

 

[bernieb]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

For what it's worth my 250 o66 smokes and shakes a little at idle and it has a 2004 powerhead and it runs great at wot.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

yes that motor is a bit shaky at idle. it cuts one cyl between 850 and about 1200 and 2 cylinders from about 1200 to about 1800 or so. but the smoking is most likly due to the oil link rod.<br /> look at the pump arm to the stopper pin clearence. to do this unclip the lower two throttle shutters at the throttle links on the stbd side. with the lower shutter held closed measure the gap. anything more than .020" is to much. I usually shoot for .005". most the time I have to cut 5 or so threads off the rod to allow the clip to thread in far enough to get the proper clearence. <br /> also do a running voltage output test on the O2 sensor. this must be done in the water but its quick and easy. with the gearcase submerged and the proper harness between the sensor conector attach a digital multi meter. with the airbox off start the motor and allow it to warm up for 5 to 10 min. then while idling close off the top shutter air bypass hole. the meter reading should climb rapidly to above .8V. when the finger is removed it should fall rapidly to about .35V. then it should start scaling between .3v to about .6v rapidly.<br /> if it does not clean the sensor,holder and drawtube. then retest. if it still fails odds are good the sensor failed. the test harness is like 8 dollars or so. the tests can be done at the ramp.

 

[210reata]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

I ask this because my 2004 ox66 has a vibration that is intermittant (vibrates more often than not) from the moment it is placed in gear until around 2000 or more RPM's. To give you an idea how much...the passenger seat rattles/vibrates. It's been in several times - each time they fix something but the problem remains. I've had it confirmed by a technician during a test drive, and after nearly 5 weeks (still in for this problem again), Yamaha is now telling me it's normal.<br /><br />In regards to the smoking issue - I can accept some at start-up. but it smokes all the time even after it's warm (my previous 2-strokes did not smoke much on start-up and never after warm). If I turn it off for 20 or 30 minutes and restart it I will some times get more smoke than imaginable by most.<br /><br />opinions?<br />

 

[rodbolt]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

so did ya test anything yet ?

 

[keithscatch]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

rodbolt,<br /><br />I have a similar issue and I must be a newbie because all of the things you suggest I have no idea where on the motor those things are. Sorry about that but I am not a mechanic.<br /><br />I have a 1999 200hp OX66 and it shakes more now at idle then before and has an intermittent hickup in it. Also, it smokes very bad now. This is new been doing it for about a month now.<br /><br />Before I was having a problem with it stopping at WOT. The engine wouldn't die on me but it would shut down to basically idle speed only. Felt like I was attached to a huge parachute behind me. It would run up to about 3,000 rpms or less. When I would gas it more then this it would start to get sluggish and if I was flooring it so to speak it would sometimes stall while at WOT and come to a stop.<br /><br />I felt like it was not getting much gas somehow so I replaced the primer bulb and that all but fixed that. It would go at higher rpms now but it still sometimes cuts off on me especially at take off. So it didn't fix that issue totally. About this time is when the smoking started getting bad. Now it struggles to take off. It used to pop me up in 3 seconds. now it takes more like 8-9 seconds.<br /><br />Black soot is coming out of the exhaust and is leaving black soot marks on the lower unit where it sits in the water like a ring around the lower unit. I had put some sea foam in the gas and also some auto gas fuel injector cleaner in the gas also. I hope that isn't the cause of the problem.<br /><br />I have no idea where the oil rod thing is. Is this easy to do or does it involve lots of labor? Where would I buy this harness you keep mentioning?<br /><br />I have never cleaned the o2 sensor. I bought the boat used in 2001. I only just learned where the o2 senser is. I looked at it but didn't want to try to take it off since I have never done that and I didn't want to ruin it. <br /><br />I am too poor to take it into a shop right now so I am trying to find out how to do things myself. If it is serious then I will have to park it and just not use it for a while until I can affors to pay the high price to have someone look at it.<br /><br />Any help?<br /><br />Thanks.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

ya need to look over all my posts, when I get back from venezuela in januray ya should be about done.<br /> you have a terrible amount of maint to catch up on. its gonna be expensive. if you continue running it most likly it will pop #1 piston, then we get to rebuild the mechanicals and still catch up on maint.<br /> best advice is for you to purchase the correct manual from a yamaha dealer, tell a loved one you need it for christmas or holidays or whatever else is PC.<br /> just by what you have posted,if you do all the work yourself, your looking at about 500 dollars worth of catch up.

 

[210reata]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

I have not 'personally' implimented any reapirs becase it's under warranty and the dealer is following Yamahas' direction.<br /><br />Yamaha's latest claim is that all my problems are within factory spec even though thier factory authorized techs (dealer based/factory trained(authorized)) admit there is a problem. The Dealer has been GREAT [Crystal Pierz Marine of Minnesota] and Ranger Boats as well. Yamaha on the otherhand has been pretending that I do not have a problem and that I do not know what to expect from a 2-stroke even though I have owned several prior to this catastrophy. What they don't realize is a law suite is about to comence!!!!!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

I dont understand what problems the dealership is having with an 04 vx225. dang thing will troubleshoot itself if you let it. sounds more like a dealeer issue rather than a yamaha issue. sounds like a "pokin hope" tech is playing with it.<br /> first issue is to insure adequte spark at the correct time, that motor does NOT incorperate CCS and will cut cylinders 2 and 4 when the shift switch is activated from idle to 3000 RPM.<br /> the ign system on the VX series is slightly different than the s series of ox66.<br />nice thing is its easier to test. it should take about 2 hours to test each system to unclude the oil consumption test. occasionally a pump will over oil or more common the pump shaft seal will leak and crate an over oiling condition on the bottom cylinders.<br />I would call yamaha and discuss it with them on how and where to take it for a total diagnostics, if no problems are noted them yamaha wont pay. that motor is not real smooth idling partly due to the fact it was not designed for trolling and does not have CCS. but its all easy to test. plug in the winky blinky and if no codes are set it eliminates all sensor inputs, from there your chasing a problem not monitored by the computer such as a bad pressure control valve on the fuel rail, leking or sticking injectors bad plug caps and excessive oiling. computers are rather dumb. the computer also does not set codes for O2 sensor malfunctions.but with a bad signal or no signal the system will go rich at idle and will most likly pop a piston if run above 4000 RPM. but its incredibly easy to check the O2 sensor output voltage takes 15 min to set it up and run it, all you need is the harness a DVM and a phillips screwdriver.

 

[keithscatch]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

Rodbolt,<br /><br />I want to get one of those harnesses you mention. If I go to a Yamaha dealer and ask for a "harness" to check the O2 sensor will they know what I am referring to? Or is it called something else?<br /><br />Will you let me know where to hook this thing up so I can check to see if my O2 sensor is bad?<br /><br />Sorry to hijack your thread 210. But your symptoms where similar to mine.<br /><br />Thanks.

 

[fondafj]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

Keithscatch,<br /> Start here ---- <br /> http://www.boatsetup.com/O2sensor.pdf <br /> Also, spend some time with the forum search engine. You will find, as I did, that you will be seriously behind on the recomended services for your outboard.

 

[keithscatch]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

Centsless,<br /><br />That is a great start thank you for that. I printed it out and read it. It sounds exactly what my engine is doing. Surging and poor exceleration and lack of power.<br /><br />I hope cleaning my o2 sensor will make it come back to life $280 for a new one would be bad.<br /><br />I will also get a service manual so I can do some of the 100 hour service things.<br /><br />Thanks guys.

 

[210reata]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

redbolt,<br /><br />the dealer has been doing exactly what Yamaha has directed them to do, only after Yamaha exausted all ideas, did they call me to tell me it's not broke.<br /><br />The mechanics are very good! The Yamaha Rep is a nice guy, but I think he's caught in the middle - mother Yamaha is dragging butt - I could go on, but I know the mechanics have adjusted, readjusted, changed componants (under Yahaha's direction) and admit the problem is not improving but if nothing else, getting worse).<br /><br />Merry Chrsitmas to ALL!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

210<br /> ya aint frekin getting it.<br /> its >NOT a yamaha isue. its an untrained poorly staffed dealer issue. Yamaha has no crystal ball. its about the eaiiest EFI on the mrket to test. like I say it will tell you whats wrong in less thn 1 hour if your tech has the PROPER training and experience. if he does not how does that correlate to a yamaha issue?<br /> if you took your chebby to the chebby dealer and the tech had no clue is it a chebby issue or a dealer isue? and yes that engine at low speed will shake, without seeing it I cnt sy whats excessive. that engine does not have <CCS. if you wish to know what CCS is call your tech. if he cannot answer what CCS is find another tech. that engine is incredibly simple even though it looks intimidating, my guess is that freshwater tech never sees the big V6s with problems or he would have called yamaha as a last resort.

 

[210reata]

Re: how much vibration and smoke is acceptible?

redbolt,<br /><br />I understand what your saying, but the Yamaha Rep has personally been supervising the repairs (he was suppose to do them, but deferred to the dealer - hint hint - and even so, the dealer is Yamaha factory trained and doing exactly what Yamaha tells them to do as far as implimenting the next repair step. So in my opinion, Yamaha either has poor representation or I have a lemon. THEREFORE IT IS A YAMAHA ISSUE