How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

[phillnjack2]

1995 Evinrude 60hp
Model no BE60TLEOC

Hi guys
I looked at the "joe reeves " way of checking the max advance/wide open throttle timing procedure.
first thing he mentions is to disengage the quick start if you have this on your engine.
well yes mine has this feature.
but how do I disengage the quick start so I can check max advance timing.

im sure its been told to me before, and explained in great detail, but I have forgot it and cannot find it in my files
that I normally keep.#
(cant find most stuff i want to look at due to new computer ).

I want to check max advance timing without having to lean over the back of the boat doing 40mph.

on my engine it states 17 degrees BTC so I presume with Joe's method I just set it
to 13 degree spinning on the starter motor then engine when running will gain its other 4 degree's ?

.
Any help on this would be real good.

.

 

[daselbee]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

Phill....you have a very good understanding of how the timerbase rotates around as you advance throttle, til it reaches max advance, RIGHT?

I mean, you got this concept down in your head....I am sure you do, since we went around and around on a link and sync issue a while back.

Anyway....my advice to you is to do the max timing adjustment when the engine is running.

Here is why. It is sometimes problematic to disable QS. Normally the white/black wire from the temp sensor would be disconnected and grounded, pack side. That is the easy part. But, there is a yellow/red wire that goes from the starter solenoid to the pack, and is at 12v when the key is in the start position. That wire picks the starter solenoid, as well as signals the pack that this is a new start and it should be in QS mode. If you remove that yellow/red wire to prevent QS mode on the pack, then you will not have a way to turn it over with the key. You will then need to use a remote start switch...etc.

So, removing that yellow/red wire opens up a new set of problems.

Also when doing this at starter speed, you have to do that 4 degree adjustment. Again...not too good.

So, do it when running, and up to temp, so that QS is naturally disabled.

Here is how:

You will see a short link from the throttle linkage to the timerbase. It will be on the right side under the flywheel.
Disconnect that link and rig up a wire coat hanger to the timerbase so that you can rotate it manually.

Start engine, let come to temp, and then rotate the timerbase around til it hits the stop. The engine will race up, but don't worry.
Read the WOT timing, shut down engine make adjustments, and re-test. This way you don't have to do the 4 degree offset, and you don't have to disable QS. All you have to do is pop off that link, and when done, put it back on.

MAKE SURE THE CARB BUTTERFLIES CANNOT OPEN!!! They won't if throttle control is in neutral, and all other linkages are still hooked up.
The only linkage you want to disconnect is the one that moves the timerbase.

You have to be careful, as you are working around that spinning flywheel. Don't get the wire coathanger caught up in anything.

One great thing about Joe Reeves method is the engine is not running. It is safer, I guess. So...do it the way you want, but I do ALL the engines I get with them running. Mercs, Mariner, J/E, anything with a rotating timerbase.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

Thanks daselbee ...that sounds brilliant,exactly what I was hoping to hear.
seems strange to have to do it in gear full throttle etc.
let me go through it to just make 100% sure I am getting it right.
1/start it up andlet it run till normal temp etc,
2/unclip that little grommet thing under flywheel and push the lever to the rubber stop thing and hold it there while looking at
the timing light marks etc.
3/keep the engine in neutral at normal idle while doing it, engine will rev up a bit but wont do any damage.
4/ by using this method I should see 17 degree's if the timing is right ?

if this is correct then it will be nice and easy and safe enough for me to do ha ha

my engine idle in neutral is around 800 if I remember correctly , is that about right for this test ?
I will make 100% sure the butterflys do not open during the test so no extra fuel etc.

advice is gratefully received

phill .

 

[daselbee]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

Yes that's right. You will not be in gear, you will not have the butterflies open.

The idle speed doesn't matter at all, as it will race up to 2500 or so.

Seventeen degrees, no 4 degree adjustment needed.

 

[daselbee]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

Do a dry run, no engine running the first time.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

great idea
that way I can make sure I don't get tangled up in the flywheel ha ha
thanks again for the great advice.


phill.

 

[boobie]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

I still like Joe Reeves method as I used that years ago. Just to prove it would work I'd then put the motor in a test tank with a test wheel on it and check it. It was always right on so I stopped using the test tank.

 

[WernerF]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

On my motor I found that the timing offset gradually moves over rpm range. So at 2,500 rpm there's still an offset of about 2 degees. But I'm not sure about the quick start models.

 

[daselbee]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

I used Joe's non-running version too. I always had questions about whether I really disabled QS. I always had questions about the -4* offset adjustment.
So, I resorted to hanging off the back of the boat at WOT and doing it that way.

Then I found the method I described above. No need to disable QS, and personally Werner...I truly have not seen the timing offset.
It Is always right on, and I just use the running method now.

I truly suspect Joe developed his method with SAFETY in mind first....I bet it was a key factor.

I am more balls to the wall, damn the torpedoes kind of a guy.

 

[daselbee]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

Phill...do it any way you want, but after it is done, get the timing light on it at least once to verify at WOT...someone driving someone on the transom...let us know how accurate it was.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

ok i done the daselbee method and it seemed like my timing was around 5 to 6 degrees out.
it only showed up at 11 to 12 deg btdc so was a long way out.
i did this with a warm engine and quickstart definitely shut itself down.
the carbs closed and just made up a rod to move the timing lever.
all in all a very easy simple thing to do and check,it was even bright and sunny yet still easy managed to see the timing pointer and the mark i put on the flywheel.

i can understand it being out a lot due to having the stator off and replaced . i did notice the stator holes can give a small amount of
play each way so obviosuly the timing was never going to be spot on. But 5 or 6 degree's seems a LOT.

Now what would be the results if the timig was this far out on power at full throttle ?
any rough ideas on how much it would be down on power ? i am thinking atleast 5% down !!!

i will check the timing just to be 100% sure when boat goes for a test run.


phill

 

[daselbee]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

i can understand it being out a lot due to having the stator off and replaced . i did notice the stator holes can give a small amount of
play each way so obviosuly the timing was never going to be spot on. But 5 or 6 degree's seems a LOT.

Now what would be the results if the timig was this far out on power at full throttle ?
any rough ideas on how much it would be down on power ? i am thinking atleast 5% down !!!

i will check the timing just to be 100% sure when boat goes for a test run.


phill

Phill.....are you saying that when you started the process, the WOT timing was already off by 5 or 6 degrees?
Has the motor been worked on before, have you always had it? I too would be questioning why it was 5 degrees off when you
started the process.
And doing it with the engine running, using the method I described, it is now set at what...17 18 degrees BTDC?

If the timing was retarded five or six degrees, and you have run the boat like that, and you are used to the power it makes, get ready for some serious power improvement!!!!

And the stator has no effect on timing...maybe just a very little due to voltages developed, but the timer base is the part that really sets and controls timing. You noticed how far it moves? Well it moves a total of probably 20 or so degrees, starting at maybe 2 ATDC (idle) and rotating around to 18 BTDC (WOT)....you get 20 degrees of total movement. It is a bit different for different motors...different specs, different idle timings, etc.
And each end of that travel must be FIXED and non variable.

Pls be sure to do the timing on the water too, if you can.

 

[WernerF]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

Have you checked/readjusted the timing pointer after mounting the flywheel? The play around the flywheel key may be 1 or 2 degrees.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: How to dissengage fast start to check wide open timing on 1995 60hp triple

I have owned the engine for 2 years and never thought it was giving anywhere near power as my old 1991 merc 60 to be honest.
I have thought it should rev out more on top end than it has done before, but put the blame on bad fuel pump etc.

Now since owning it I have had trouble with the stator due to broken wires, rectifier and I even changed the flywheel !!!!
ive had the vro pump completely pack up on both the oil side and the fuel side as well, so now running a brand new but
old style pump and pre-mixing at 50 to 1 to stay safe.
the reason I changed the flywheel was simply because I had a spare and was not 100% I had a stator problem at first.
(I did not see the broken wires and thought maybe the flywheel magnets had moved etc.)
anyway looking again I think it was actually set at around 10 to 12 degrees btdc and definitely nowhere near the
16 and 18 degree markers !!!.
But even the original flywheel has the key in the exact same place as the one on the engine now.

since I done the timing with the engine running in a water butt, it picks up miles faster than ever and at 2000 rpms sounds proper nice.
I only took it to 2000 very briefly with a rubbish prop on in the water butt to act like a test wheel sort of thing.

the pointer on the engine has never been moved since ive owned it, and I don't think it is a movable pointer (i could be wrong).

silly question this, but could the timing have been set at say 12 degree to keep the engine from getting full power ?
I ask this as the engine was owned previously by the sea cadets group and they used 2 identical engines on 1 boat like a
training vessel for youngsters and junior cadets etc..

does a commercial engine have the timing set different to normal ? if so maybe it was set like that ? I really don't know why
it was off so far.

how much horse power would I have been losing with it set so far out ? that is what I would like to know.

I hope to be on the water and check the timing again this week while running fast just to make sure.


phill