How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

[kungpaoshizi]

Slowly I'm upgrading/replacing parts etc on a 76 Mercury 1150 I got on a boat few months ago...
Had the starter replaced recently, but one thing remains, when starting, I can hear the starter spin, and this will go on for at least a few times when attempting to start.
Then after x amount of times it will start.

I'm concerned the deep cycle I inherited with the boat isn't enough for up front current of the engine to start? (that's why it takes a few times listening to the whirr of the starter before it finally gets enough current to Start-start?)

Apologies, I'm unsure of how the starter works exactly...

I wonder if this is the reason I had to replace the starter when I first got the boat because I held on the start button too long and caused the whir of the starter to heat the unit too much? But since it's a brand new starter and it's whirring the same a few times before actually starting, I'm a bit concerned because I don't want to ruin the new starter

Thanks very much for any thoughts!

 

[BatDaddy1887]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

Yeah, most people use a regular starting battery with a lot of CCAs (cold Cranking Amps), I like using a battery with 950 CCA because it's a huge engine (Merc 115 inline 6) and that seems to do the job quite nicely. I use the deep cycles for some of my accessories like the radio and led lights at night.

OK, onto the stater. Starters need more power from the battery than you may think. The terminals must be very clean and have a rock-solid connection. Check the teeth (the Bendix) on the starter and make sure they are not worn or missing.

 

[wired247]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

That motor could get turned over and started just fine with a 550 CCA deep cycle battery. Ive got a walmart 750 CCA deep cycle in mine thats been there for 5 years and has started and run 3.0 liters, 260HP, 1500's and 140 Johnsons. I'll be shocked if its still not there in 5 years. With non regulated inlines I prefer deep cycles because of the times when that charging system is barely keeping the motor running much less charging the battery.

Make sure the battery has a full charge and is full of electrolyte. Test it with a battery tester, not a voltmeter. If your starter is spinning up and not engaging your flywheel, its not the batteries fault. The start is out of alignment or the bendix is bad. Take the bendix apart, clean it, lube it and adjust the spring tension with the nut on top then lock the nut down by double nutting it. sounds to me like the bendix just needs adjusting.

 

[JB]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

Sounds like resistance in the circuit is preventing full current. Remove and scrub shiny all connections of both cables. Usually it is the connection of the battery ground cable to the engine block that gets hidden corrosion even though staying tight.

 

[Timestep]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

If the starter is turning the engine over well, then the battery is just fine.

Dave

 

[CharlieB]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

The starter uses an 'inertia' drive. That old law of physics, an object at rest....... the sudden turning of the starter shaft 'screw's the drive up the shaft and engages the flywheel.

That threaded portion of the starter shaft must be clean and dry, no grease as grease tends to accumulate dirt. If you insist on lubing it use Dry Slide or some other type of drying silicone lube.

as the others here have been trying to tell you, ALL cable connections must be cleaned, bright and tight, both ends and including the cable to the starter motor AND the starter mounts. Many starters do not have a ground cable and rely on their mount to the motor for a ground. This spots also need to be clean.

As a starter ages the brushes wear and the commutator they ride on gets dirty. It can be sanded clean, carefully , and lightly lube the bushings. Check to be sure the brushes are still long enough that the spring still hold them well against the commutator.

Edit; A poor contact in the starter relay can contribute to a slow turning starter. A quick check, use you handy set of jumper cables, and jump directly from the battery to the starter, if the starter now cranks faster than turning the key then you know you have a poor connection somewhere. If it still happens after cleaning all connections then you may suspect the relay.

 

[joed]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

If the starter is spinning over at normal speed then the battery is not your starting issue. The engine does not need a battery to start except to turn the starter.

 

[smittylv1]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

Outboard starter motors generally draw less than 100 amps. Charging systems without voltage regulators may exceed 16 VDC. Flooded deep cycle starting batteries will handle the higher charge volts much better than an GEL or AGM, due to their higher lead content. 500 to 650 CCA should be sufficient.

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

Well I got the boat back from the other shop in town, I was feeling lazy so I just had them do a lync and sync...
Though I think they switched the battery on me lol...

I swear it was a random deep cycle, blue label. Now it's a EverMaxx-29 (875 CCA, 125 AH)..

I took it out on the lake yesterday, and actually heard/saw something new. I hit the ignition button, and actually got some "clicks" when attempting to start. So I put the battery on the charger last night and we'll see if it's low, it read only 12.0 volts and 95% on my charger.

I'm almost wondering if when the first shop fixed the starter because of the same issue, they tapped it too hard, so when the starter was opened up and the magnet was found broken it didn't identify the true issue...

Also anyone know a good place to get used harnesses as well for the 76 1150 style? There is a lot of cracks in the wires... That's been another thought..

Thanks again~!

 

[JB]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

Did you remove and clean all connectors as suggested? If not, you wasted a lot of bux. Do it now.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

NEVER tap on a permanent magnet starter, the magnets can, and will, fracture.

That old banging on a starter trick may work to wiggle the brushes on a fielded starter as found all around the rest of the world, but NOT on an outboard.

Once the battery is charged you may still want to try the jumper cable direct from the battery top the starter, if that makes it turn quicker than using the key then it may be time for a new starter relay.

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

Well I had the battery tested, 2 places say it's good.

I was looking around yesterday, I see a good bit of corrosion in the positive starter wire. Gonna change that out today.

I was also out on the lake the other day and most of the time when hitting the start button it would vary from a click, to nothing, to starting just fine. It was acting a bit unstable. I realized that I should have put the battery on the charger but was pulling only 12.0+ volts running around, off a full charge I've been getting 13.3ish

 

[BatDaddy1887]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

If you see corrosion on the red starter wire, then my advise is to replace both wires (red & black) with new ones. Trying to clean up those heavy gauge wires is nearly impossible since they are so thick, you can't really tell how far the corrosion has penetrated. When the new ones are installed, smear die-electric grease all over any electrical connection to prevent corrosion, even the battery terminals.

 

[jimmbo]

Re: How to verify a deep cycle is not good enough for main engine starting?

Yeah, most people use a regular starting battery with a lot of CCAs (cold Cranking Amps), I like using a battery with 950 CCA because it's a huge engine (Merc 115 inline 6) and that seems to do the job quite nicely. I use the deep cycles for some of my accessories like the radio and led lights at night.

The 115 is only 99.8 cubics of low compression design. I hate to think what CCA rating you think you need to crank your truck or car engine which most llkely is much bigger with a higher compression ratio