Hydro-Electric shift problems

[ErikF]

Hello Everyone,

I'm having some issues with the hydro-electric shifting on my 1972 65HP Evinrude.

When I first got it back together it would be in forward with the engine not running and would not shift into neutral when the engine started.

Then after a few starts and stops it began to shift into neutral on startup but would not shift into either forward or reverse.

Now it seems to be defaulting to reverse when the engine is not running or cranking slow and then shifting to neutral when the engine starts. It still doesn't shift once the engine is running.

I'm pretty green when it comes to working on these engines. I'm assuming my first step is to confirm voltage at the shift cables (when their should be voltage) and then if that checks out to move back to the lower unit?

How are the solenoids tested, do I simply apply voltage and see if it moves?

I have also heard that it is possible to test shifting with the lower unit removed by spinning the input shaft with a spline tool and a drill, I would like to do this to save from needing to connect and disconnect the lower unit for testing. Where can I buy the spline tool and how fast will I need it spinning to pump the oil required to shift?

Any and all help and or suggestions are appreciated. I'll probably have a chance to mess with it again tomorrow afternoon, hopefully you experts can get me pointed in the right direction!

Thanks in advance!

Erik

 

[Daviet]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Do you have the proper oil in the lower unit, type "C"?
First thing first, check the voltages.
No voltage to either wire = forward
Voltage to green wire = neutral
Voltage to both wires, blue and green, at the same time = reverse.
Start by disconnecting the wires at the engine and check the voltages FROM the control box.
If the control box checks out, use jumper wires and apply voltage to the lower unit with the engine running on muffs, You might want to remove the prosafety safty when doing this.
Did you have problems before you took it apart? You might need to flush the lower unit if it had sit for a long time.

 

[bernd64]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

to ad to Daviet post this L/U shift only if the imput shaft is turning so this means the motor has to run.

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Hi Daviet,

Yes, I have the proper oil, although I did briefly have the wrong oil at the end of last season, however the engine was never run when the wrong oil was in the lower unit. The oil is new, just filled it this afternoon.

I'll start by checking the voltages and going through the wiring tomorrow, thanks for the explanation!

The problems began near the end of last summer, the motor had issues where it would slip out of reverse. The problems I am having now though are not the same as it doesn't shift at all anymore. I had the lower unit off last season to change the impeller and, I also changed the lower unit oil (to the wrong oil) at the same time, I had electrical issues when it went back together and didn't have time to mess with it so it sat for the Winter and now I'm just getting back into it. I've already rewired much of the engine and have solved the electrical issues and now have found the shifting problems.

Thanks for the advice so far. I'll keep this thread updated once I have a chance to mess with it again tomorrow.

Thanks!

Erik

 

[mars bar]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

to ad to Daviet post this L/U shift only if the imput shaft is turning so this means the motor has to run.

Have a 50 hp hydro, My problem was with the switch in the control box. It is a rocker type switch with a wheel on the top. If it's shot it will cost you up to $ 300.00 or more to replace it. I was lucky and found the whole shifter on E bay for $105.00

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

to ad to Daviet post this L/U shift only if the imput shaft is turning so this means the motor has to run.

Right! Now does this mean that if the engine is running in neutral and is shutdown it should stay in neutral?

I was under the impression that with no power applied it will automatically shift into forward, just want to make sure I understand correctly.

Thanks!

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Have a 50 hp hydro, My problem was with the switch in the control box. It is a rocker type switch with a wheel on the top. If it's shot it will cost you up to $ 300.00 or more to replace it. I was lucky and found the whole shifter on E bay for $105.00

I'll be sure to check the switch, though I doubt (hope) it's not the problem in my case. I tried running the engine with the shift cables disconnected and it remained in neutral.

Thanks!

 

[Daviet]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Yes,with no voltage to the shift solenoid the lower unit will default to forward.

 

[bernd64]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

yes it will be in forward with no power to it

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Yes,with no voltage to the shift solenoid the lower unit will default to forward.

Ok,

Then it looks like I have a lower unit issue. I ran it disconnected and the engine remained in neutral. I'll pull the L/U off tomorrow, is there anything obvious I should be looking at? Is there a way I can test the solenoids outside the engine to ensure they're working?

Thanks!

 

[Daviet]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

If it is stuck in neutral maybe you have a stuck or bound plunger.
Something you might want to try, we used to drain the lower unit and fill with automatic transmission fluid, run the engine on muffs and shift from neutral to forward to reverse several (alot) of times and see if it starts to work properly. If some trash found its way to the plunger in the pump and bound it up, it might flush it out. Might be worth a try.

 

[eavega]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

What Daviet says. If the gearcase oil is not at the right level and perfectly clean, it can muck up the works and the unit won't shift. Try to flush with ATF and see if you can get it to shift. You can always take the LU apart and clean it out that way.

Rgds

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Alright Everyone,

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Sounds like I'll start by checking and confirming that all the wiring is correct, then I'll drain the L/U and refill with ATF, if I still don't have any luck getting it to shift I'll pull the L/U again and start checking and cleaning everything out.

Thanks Again,

Erik

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Hey Everyone,

I removed the lower unit again as trying ATF and repetitive shifting did not solve any of the issues, it still will not shift out of neutral while running.

I took a picture of the solenoid and the area where in drives the shifting. Please let me know if anything looks out of place, missing, or assembled wrong. I want to make sure my problems aren't a result of something being put together wrong before I tear into the gearcase.

Also are the solenoids supposed to be in a sealed area in the lower unit? I noticed some oil around the solenoids when I removed them.

Thanks!

Erik

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Test solenoid coil windings with ohmmeter Should read 5-6 ohms. Amperage draw should be 1.5-2.0 amps.

The factory repair manual for my 1971 50hp hydroshift states solenoid adjustment is critical for propper shifting. It then goes on to give a 9 step adjusting proceedure. Are you aware of that proceedure?

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Test solenoid coil windings with ohmmeter Should read 5-6 ohms.

Checked, they both read around 5.4 ohm.

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

read the edit of my previous post

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Hi,

No, I am not aware of the procedure, I do not have a factory service manual yet and my generic book makes no mention of solenoid adjustments. If you could throw a few tips my way I would be much appreciative.

I do have a Fluke amp clamp so I will be able to check the amperage draw and see if it's in spec.

Thanks,

Erik

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

1. Thread plunger onto casing and insert the lockscrew. insert shift rod casing through lower solenoid (blue wire). Press the cap completely onto the bottom of the shift rod casing.

2. Insert lower solenoid assembly into gearcase. Make sure end of casing is resting on valve arm of oil pump. Be sure the solenoid bottoms in gearcase housing.

3. Measure dimensions between top of plunger and surface of solenoid. The plunger top must be flush to not over 1/64 inch below top of solenoid. To adjust, remove solenoid assembly, loosen lockscrew and turn plunger on casing up or down. Tighten lockscrew to 9-11 inch lbs. Replace and recheck.

4. Install solenoid spacer with grooves up.

5. Instert upper solenoid (green wire) with plunger and shift rod into gear case.

6. measure dimensions between plunger top and solenoid surface.

7. Plunger top must be flush within 1/64 inch below top of solenoid. tighten to 3-5 in lb

8. place wave washer on top of upper solenoid

9. apply sealer to both sides of gasket and place on gearcase . install cover

 

[ErikF]

Re: Hydro-Electric shift problems

Oldrudedude,

That's exactly what I need! Thanks!

I'll check everything out and report back.

Erik