I am dissapointed

[Walt T]

With the advice being given out here. people have encouraged the use of automotive distributors and automotive carburetors in boats without nary a peep from the moderators.<br />C'mon folks, ya'll smarter than that.

 

[dmorley]

Re: I am dissapointed

Dieselwalt,<br />You are absolutely right. Anybody who wants to see how much trouble they are heading for with the Coast Guard or death should run a search on "Available CFR Titles on GPO Access". Go down to title 46 and it contains all kinds of USCG specifications and prohibitions.

 

[JB]

Re: I am dissapointed

Hi, Dieselwalt.<br /><br />Correcting bad advice or incorrect information is up to members like yourself that know better and can explain why the advice was bad.<br /><br />Moderators monitor adherence to our rules. Unfortunately, there is no rule about giving bad advice or incorrect information.<br /><br />Thanks for your help in this regard. We really appreciate it, as do the members that you help with good advice and correct information.

 

[Walt T]

Re: I am dissapointed

In other words if the admins give and modify advice that makes them responsible, doesnt it? So we put a disclaimer on our boards and stay the hey off of them.

 

[JB]

Re: I am dissapointed

Admins? Don't understand your point, DieselWalt.<br /><br />The agreement you accepted when you signed on disclaims any responsibility for correctness of postings by members. Moderators are members when they offer advice or information of a technical nature.<br /><br />What you write and read here is casual conversation, not professional consultation. None of us get paid or charged for any of it. The reader is responsible for what he does with it.<br /><br />Is that what you are getting at, or do you have some other agenda? If you are asking moderators to be experts on everything you are dreaming.

 

[moderator1]

Re: I am dissapointed

Hello DieselWalt,<br /><br />I understand your frustration. I also correct that line of thinking when posting, not as a moderator, in the technical help areas only to be ridiculed and scoffed at.. People are going to do what they want to do regardless of the warnings. <br /><br />Correcting posts for technical accuracy is not the mission of a moderator. We are here to make sure that the board rules are adhered to and topics remain civil. If I ever modify a technical thread it is to clean it up or stop one member from flaming another. The advice given, by members, remains intact as long as it pertains to the subject matter. I think you know what I mean.<br /><br />As JB said, none of us have the technical skills to be experts in all fields. As a poster on the board, I simply give opinions on technical questions. As a moderator, I do not.

 

[mlslocks]

Re: I am dissapointed

Rather than complain about what people don't say you should give good advise. Don't just write,"C'mon folks, ya'll smarter than that"

 

[Walt T]

Re: I am dissapointed

Gee why didnt I think of that?

 

[Trent]

Re: I am dissapointed

Not to stir up anything at ALL. But why do the Mods hide their other Names? Is their a secret? Why?? Scared?? I dont know?????? JB does not and I respect him for that! Whether I disagree or not with his thoughts, I respect him for being HIM!

 

[denniz]

Re: I am dissapointed

There used to be alot of qualified techs posting answers on this board. Now its more customers talking to customers, not knowing what proper repair or safety is.(try this if it doest blow up youre good)I repair boats 40 hrs a week, when I first found this forum it was new and a fun thing to do, I dont mind helping, I just got kinda burned out.Cant expect mods to fix boats, they do there job, moderate. Ill try to help more when I can. Dennis

 

[JB]

Re: I am dissapointed

Thanks for your comments, Trent.<br /><br />There are two sides to being a non-anonymous Moderator. <br /><br />One side is represented by your comment, and I appreciate that a lot.<br /><br />On the other side, I get personal attacks and flack from those who don't agree with something I did as a Moderator. Frankly, it hurts when that happens, but I chose it so I live with it.<br /><br />Please don't think less of the other Moderators if they choose to avoid the personal attacks and forego the personal appreciation. It is a tough job that gets tougher if one is swayed by a normal desire to be liked when you need to be firm and consistent.<br /><br />Thanks.

 

[jbh350]

Re: I am dissapointed

Just to educate myself, what are the major differences between marine and automotive? Why would I not want to put a regular 350 Chevy out of an automobile into my boat?

 

[JasonB]

Re: I am dissapointed

I can understand why the Mods may want to hide theior identities. If you want an example, cruise a few threads in the bottom forum. The Mods have to do what they deem right and usually catch a bunch of grief over it. I've seen a couple Mod actions that I didn't agree with, but I'm not going to give them grief over it. I'ma Network Admin by day and a website admin/forum mod for another forum by night. It can be easier for some people to accept something done by ModeratorX than by MemberX. For the record, I appear on my board as ADMIN, but my real info in my profile. <br /><br />Now as far as the Automotive parts on a marine engine... Not in my boat. I value the safety of my family too much. I'm a huge cheapskate, but there are some corners that I won't cut. That being said, if someone is determined to use a auto carb, distributor, starter, etc, they are going to do it regardless of us telling them not to. <br /><br />Many of the discussions are opinion based as what works for my boat/engine may not be appropriate for another. I may have great results with product X while someone else's experience was horrible.

 

[JasonB]

Re: I am dissapointed

John, I'll take a stab at starting that explanation. On the surface, the carb is different. A marine carb is designed to be more resistant to leaks and has vent tubes that drain overflow into the carb, instead of out of the card. The distributor, starter, and alternator are modified to prevent open sparks from igniting any fuel vapors in the engine compartment. The block will usually have brass freeze plugs instead of steel to prevent them from corroding out. The cam is also a "marine" grind which is much like an RV cam. The water pump will also have a stainless or brass impeller and slightly differend seals to fight corrosion, while many auto pumps use a steel impeller. The bolt on exhaust is much different as the manifolds have to be water cooled. Many of the gaskets are also of differnt material.<br /><br />There are other differnces that others will list, but these are some of the first that come to mind. <br /><br />That being said, many of the internal parts of my rebuilt V8 are "Street Race" spec auto parts like the pistons, oil pump, etc along with a cam of my choosing for the power I wanted. All bolt ons are marine. The carb, alternator, starter, distro, waterpump, etc are all marine approved.<br /><br />Hope this helps.

 

[DJ]

Re: I am dissapointed

John Hite,<br /><br />Here's an attempt at answering your question.<br /><br />1. Spark components (distributors, alternators, starters, modules, relays) in a marine application are shielded to not allow any spark to be open to the atmosphere. Remember, the atmosphere in an inboard or I/O may contain gasoline fumes. Not a good mix. <br /><br />As a side note. Here is an example: The USCG test for a starter is as follows. 1. Place the starter in a closed box. 2. Fill the box with propane and oxygen mix. 3. Operate the starter. 4. No explosion-pass, explosion-not pass.<br /><br />2. Fuel handling components (carburetors, injectors, etc) are routed so that any fuel spillage goes into a closed system, in this case the engine crankcase. That is why it is also paramount that crankcase ventilation systems also be up to specifications.<br /><br />The whole idea is to NOT let spark and gas fumes meet where they might cause problems.<br /><br />Trust me, there is a huge difference in these marine comnponents as compared to average automotive.<br /><br />As far as the basic engine, there are few differences. Mostly those differences have to do with basic cam timing, bearing material, piston material and any components that may be exposed to a raw water (fresh water/salt water) cooling.

 

[jbh350]

Re: I am dissapointed

Now my next question would be, How would I be able to identify automotive parts if they were on my boat?

 

[Bondo]

Re: I am dissapointed

Well John,<br />That would Depend on Which Part......<br /><br />DieselWalt,<br />The Mods here do a Great Job, But, as stated, It's up to You,+ I,+ the Rest of the More Knowledgable here to Explain Why you Don't use, Which auto parts on your boat......<br />( Even Many of US are sometimes a little confused...LOL....<br />1 point, I Respect DJ in the Highest Degree, But, "bearing material, piston material " Are in Fact, The Same, in Both Autos,+ Marine Engines....) <br /><br />I can see where this topic would be an Excellent Choice for a FAQ listing.......<br />I'll Try to remember to do a write-up......

 

[DJ]

Re: I am dissapointed

Bondo,<br /><br />I guess I should have clarified. They MAY be different. ie, a truck/RV marine conversion engine as opposed to its car equivelant in displacement, etc. <br /><br />I do know that Ford engines (when in the marine biz with Merc-1970's and later OMC-1980's) did indeed have different composites for pistons and bearings from the car and truck counterparts. The Ford engines used the industrial engine stuff which was good for burning any gaseous fuel-propane/butane, CNG, LNG and of course gasoline. Along with that, the compression ratios were lower. <br /><br />GM industrial engines may or may have, at one time, been the same way-don't know.<br /><br />Point well taken. The stuff inside the engine is a sort of a non issue for safety's sake. It's the hang on stuff that will get one in trouble-fast. <br /><br />GREAT idea for the FAQ's! Can't wait to read it. Post it here and we'll have a look.

 

[DJ]

Re: I am dissapointed

John Hite,<br /><br />Usually, the starter, alternator and distributor will have a tag identifying it as a genuine Volvo or MerCruiser part. At least that would be a first step. If you see a GM HEI distributor, it's NOT marine.<br /><br />The fuel pump and carburetor will look different. The fuel pump will have a second outlet that runs to the carb. This is for any spillage that may get past the diaghram. The carb will have float bowl vents that go to the carb throat. Usually, those are tubes.<br /><br />The PCV sustem should be intact and vent into either the flame arrestor of the intake manifold.<br /><br />By the way, the flame arrestor (air cleaner) is special too. I've seen I/O's with automotive air cleaners-that was scary!

 

[Walt T]

Re: I am dissapointed

To identify automotive parts on a marine engine:<br />The carburetor must have the J nozzle and must have the fitting to accept the hose from the fuel pump. It must not have any vacuum ports capped off with rubber caps. The intake manifold must not have any vacuum ports capped off with rubber caps. This is to minimize the possibilty of backfire flame blowing off the caps and providing a source of ignition.<br />The fuel pump must have the port for the tube going to the carburetor. This provides an outlet for fuel to be dumped into the engine should the fuel pump diaphragm begin to leak. Sometimes excessive fuel can cause a backfire. Hence the no capped off vacuum ports rule.<br />Distributors and distributor caps must not have any vents on them. The sparking taking place inside provides a source of ignition. The alternator and starter must have sheilds inside to prevent the sparks inside from providing an ignition source. Sometimes the only way to verify alternators and starters is to match up part numbers or have a rebuilder verify it. <br />As far as the basic engine there are internal differences that have more to do with performance in the marine environment than safety. You could use an automotive base engine from a car if you wanted to. Marine head gaskets and freeze plugs would be wise. Don't let anyone tell you the blocks, bearings, pistons, rods, lifters, are different. I've seen 2 bolt mains, I've seen 4 bolt mains.<br />Cams are different part numbers, and circ pumps are too.<br />Got a car 350 and want to stick it in your boat? Go right ahead, but use the above mentioned marine specific components. If you don't want to bother with the cam, fine. <br /><br />Any mechanic that tells you using automotive components is okay should be avoided, and you should warn fellow boaters to stay away.<br />I could say the same for some forums.