I am so confused!!

lowvlot

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
231
I have been restoring my '87 Bayliner Capri Cuddy for what seems like eternity. In reality it has only been a summer or two. The reason it is taking so long is because I quite literally don't know what I am doing.

Therefore I read and read and when I am tired of reading I call people and then read some more. I have found alot of great info. on this forum and in talking with people locally at boat shops and repair shops as well as Bayliner themselves.

My problem is this. There is so much contradicting info. that it is almost impossible to know who to believe. Read almost any thread on this forum and you will believe that 1708 biax and "peanut butter" is the way to go. Also that US Composites is where to buy material from. That you should under NO circumstance use resin from a big box store. What makes it so bad? Why is UScomposites so much better.
You would read all about how to bed and tab in your stringers and then do a wrap on the final layer or two.
Talk to some boat repair shops here locally and they will tell you (depending on who you talk to) that you don't have to glass all the way over the stringer but only 3-4 inches up both sides as long as the entire stringer is coated in resin. Or they will tell you to tab it in with two over lapping layers and then put two full wraps on but that CSM is not nessacery and will only soak up resin and not do anything for strength.
Then you have the whole foam debate. I have read on here that you can use just about anything for floatation as long as it is bouyant. 2 litter bottles, milk jugs, pool noodles, I have heard of inner tubes. Pink or blue foam from HD. Talk to a local shop and pour in foam is the way to go. Talk to another and any of the above is fine.
When it comes to laying the deck the only thing that is congruant is that it should be waterproofed. How to go about this waterproofing is anyones game. Resin coat both top and bottom, then mat all over it. Polyuerathane the bottom and mat the top, paint the bottom with an acrylic paint and mat the top, polyuerathane both top and bottom and carpet. Anything you can think of to waterproof I have read and been told will work.
My concesus is anything goes. There are so many differing opinions on how things should be done that one can't possibly be any better than other. I have read on here that no matter how it's done it has to be better than the factory. I was even told that at a repair shop today.
There my rant of frustration is over.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: I am so confused!!

lol....my friend.....i feel your pain.

there are sine things you wrote about that can be cleaned up....

resin from a big box store........waxed ...and very expencive.

resin coat alone......never. resin is brittle and it will crack.....take some out of your cured resin bucket the next day and you can crumple it in your hand.......csm must allways be used with resin.

to be contimued......gotta move a boat
 

Grandad

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
1,504
Re: I am so confused!!

Good rant. What you say is true. That's the great thing about website discussions. Everyone has an opinion, sometimes qualified, sometimes not so much. You do get to see though, a general trend and if you're patient, you begin to recognize who/what is important to you, in your opinion. Our opinions are shaped by our education, our experiences and our personality. I like the fact that most of us have your best interest in mind when they give their opinion. If you were to consult a manufacturer about whether you should use his product, you know what he'll say. His opinion is only any good if it entails how to use his product.

And by the way, in regard to waterproofing the deck, I've just removed my 39 year old Starcraft's plywood floor, unprotected I'm told since the Starcraft gnomes installed it. In most places, there are still rough splinters along the edges that have not yet lost their sharp sliver points, let alone rotted. So, in my opinion, maybe we don't need to waterproof. But I'm gonna, cuz in everyone else's opinion, I should. - Grandad
 

jigngrub

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
8,155
Re: I am so confused!!

I've wondered why if "glassed in" decks were so good, why do so many people have to replace rotten "glassed in" decks? Seems to me that a "glassed in" deck would hold water/moisture like a bowl if the barrier was ever breached. At least with bare decking it has a chance to breathe. You can also fasten bare decking through the finish which will gice you access to the bilge and other areas should you have a problem, a big plus in my book!

I know that my words may appear as blasphemy to some, but to me they make sense.
 

Friscoboater

Captain
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
3,095
Re: I am so confused!!

Just read here and come up with your own opinion. There are many ways to build a boat.
 

produceguy

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
1,243
Re: I am so confused!!

You guys make sense but I glassed mine in and I used the 3m box store stuff...... with wax :facepalm:and I haven't had any problems just have to lay up two or three layers at a time. Worked great for me.
I would say you should practice glassing a couple pieces of wood before you try glassing in a transom or stringers and go heavy on the resin.

I respect everyones methods, some are better than others but most of us are backyard boat builders not pros.
 

Big Gee

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
174
Re: I am so confused!!

Relax lowvlot, the future of the free world doesn't hinge on where your resin came from.

I've been putting glass on boats long before the advent of the internet and the advice available here on iboat.
By today's standards, I've made some seemingly unforgivable mistakes over the years and somehow my boats and I survived.

Pick a method and follow it while staying open to new ideas. Eventually you'll have your own techniques based on your experiences.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: I am so confused!!

ARRRG......... i just finished 2 hours of detailed typing for this.......i got logged off because of the 2 hours.......and it got lost

ill try again tommorow........i need a corona
 

jigngrub

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
8,155
Re: I am so confused!!

ARRRG......... i just finished 2 hours of detailed typing for this.......i got logged off because of the 2 hours.......and it got lost

ill try again tommorow........i need a corona

Copy your reply before you post, if you have problems you can log back in and paste the reply.
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: I am so confused!!

I would just ask myself... WWFBD? (what would Friscoboater do) and do that :D
 

produceguy

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
1,243
Re: I am so confused!!

Something that really helped me out smoothing out the fiberglass and releaving the air bubbles was to get some cheap gloves and lay out a layer of resin on the area, lay down the glass ( pre cut ) smooth out with your hands and then cover again with resin and repeat with glass, resin, glass, resin. Yes it will get on your hands but you can wash them. That worked great for me.
When you use the 3m matt you need alot of resin to smooth it out. You can run your hands over it before you lay it on resin to try to lay down all those fibers that are loose and hard to smooth out.
I also think that cheap old chip brushes seem to work better than the high dollar brushes.
If the resin starts to gell up, stop, don't use it, let what you have cure, sand the wax off ( the shiney surface )if you need more lay ups.
 

JSmitty

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
35
Re: I am so confused!!

Yep.

Contention is what keeps us humans occupied :).

Pick any "subjective" subject and there is bound to be contradiction. If you haven't painted/gel'd it yet wait till you get to those opinions. :eek:

I went through it all during my restore. Finally just decided to take it all in and cull it using experimental evidence and common sense. Some of the advice was incredibly helpful and I appreciate that people took the time to try to help out.

BTW, I used US Composites because it was the cheapest epoxy I could find, and I used pour-in foam because I wanted the sound-deadening and solid floor feel it provides.
 

Doernuth

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
332
Re: I am so confused!!

I understand the frustration.

Keep in mind there are more than one way to do things. Do what works best for you and gives you the best results.

As for products, use what you can get easiest and cheapest that will do the job.

Some of the boat restores I have seen on here go above and beyond what is needed to do the job and make a safe boat, that being said those jobs will probably last longer than just doing what is needed. There is something to be said for going that extra mile.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: I am so confused!!

I think you may be confusing the recommended ways to use polyester and epoxy resin. While they are both liquids that become hard, they are very different products and have different methods of use.

The problem most people complain about with Box store resin is that the gel time can be very short, this can complicate the process dramatically for a rookie on their first few attempts in hot weather. It may also contain wax, if you are doing all of the layers of glass at the same time then it's not a big issue, but it is if there are multiple layers or overlaps on fully cure resin. Plus you will get no help from the box store on how to use the product, the online dealers typically have a great deal of information on the best way to use what they sell. The cost can also be much higher from a box store, but if you only need a small amount the convenience of buying it locally may trump price.

CSM is only needed with polyester, it?s of no value when using epoxy.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: I am so confused!!

finally got back to this thread....i have been so busy.

ondarvr hit a bunch of the things i had typed.....

and i still dont have time to go over each issue.
however.....
in short......there may be many ways to build a boat....even mythbusters built one out of duct tape...and another out of frozen newspapers.....

but as far as using fiberglass and resin...there is a right way and a wrong way.....if ever in doubt...ask ondarvr or call the manufacture......they will tell you the truth....not the way bob or dave at the local boat yard have been doing it for years.....

lowvlot.....a lot of your rant disturbed me......i can clean most of it up.... as soon as i get time....ill post a proper responce.....
a lot of what you are confused about is myth about fiberglassing. some of it is lazyness on the part of builders....and some is just plain wrong information form builders.

geez is wish my last post did not get deleted.....

ill dig this one up when i can and post properly
 
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