I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

[Xesvuli420]

Ok after going thru 3 modules (at least 1 bad), and 2 sets of ESA/Overstroke switches (both good). With muffs on, and the boat running in neutral, I NEVER could get the ESA switch to stumble the motor at all! I know that if the boat is not in the water the cam will not activate the switch... but I can trip it manually, and the boat will never know!

I have tried and tried and tried to get it to stumble on land (manually hitting the switch) but it just refuses! I assumed it was just another faulty module since there is a way to test everything else. I understand that in the water, the resistance in the propeller is what causes that cam to move, hitting the switch, stumbling the motor, and allowing you to come out of gear.... Take away the water, and you have to hit the switch yourself.

However... I give up on getting the ESA circuit working before today! I decided to just hook 1 up, and go to the lake for the 4th of July fireworks! I could just wear out my starter getting it out of gear when I needed to by turning the key off like I did last year.

All of a sudden "BAM"... I try (just for fun) to get it out of neutral, and it worked!!!
It wasn't feather light mind you, but applying a little pressure would stumble the motor, and it would come right out of gear. I can not ever begin to tell you why, or how in the hell the ESA worked today, BUT IT DID!!! If you can, please explain because I am baffled!

I tried reverse, and it worked. I could even hear it stumble the motor for just s split second when going INTO gear. I WAS SO F*ing HAPPY!!! A years worth of headache was finally over!

W R O N G !!!!

It worked all day long. Into gear, out of gear, into gear, out of gear. Seriously guys I was ear to ear! Then come the most amazing firework display I've ever seen, and then came the moment I have been waiting for. Time to fight the traffic for an hour bumper to bumper on the long ride back to the dock... I had dreaded this moment knowing my ESA was not functioning, but not anymore since my ESA was back!!!

again... W R O N G !!!

Would you guys believe that as soon as I got behind a boat in the line, the ESA went out again? Well believe it!

However now it stumbles going into forward, stumbles going into revers, hell it even stumbles going into neutral coming out of reverse... BUT NOT COMING OUT OF FORWARD !!!

I could even hear the cam tap when I would pull back quickly(so I know it was engaging the switch)... but no stumble.

What the hell is the problem guys?

I had to use the "key" method until my starter started whining, and i remembered a trick a friend told me to try. Goose it forward for just a second, then quickly try to go into neutral. It worked, but I would sometimes go past neutral, and not quite to reverse, and I could just hear those dogs clicking together. Not at all what I wanted but I had no choice!

I finally made it back to the dock, and loaded up, but I knew it was going to be a nightmare since I can't seem to figure out how to troubleshoot on land.

What do I do now?

Why is the module not stumbling JUST coming out of forward? IT DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!!!

Why won't it stumble when I hit it with my finger on land?

No more wearing out starters, or even worse beating dogs! The boat will remain dry until I can get this figured out so please please please...

HELP!?!?!?

Thanks guys !!!

 

[Xesvuli420]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

Bumpity Bump

 

[Raymondpb]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

I to am suffering from the same problem in my 2.3L Cobra. It is intermittent just like yours and I am at a loss also. I don?t quite under stand why or how your starter plays into the equation because the issue is coming out of gear not going in; or as it is designed to operate. If the system fails you will never know going into gear. So please help me to understand.

One of my suspicions, in my case, is that the shift cable from the quadrant at the motor to the gearbox is worn/stretched or binding in some way that is preventing the switch from being actuated however that does not explain why manual manipulation of the switch does not always trigger the interrupt.

Question; what is the ?second? switch in the system for? I have not yet been able to find a good explanation. I think it is called an over-rotation switch?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

Why is the module not stumbling JUST coming out of forward? IT DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!!!

You're right. It DOES NOT know the difference. It is only an electronic device actuated by switches connected by wiring........


Focus on them.

 

[Xesvuli420]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

If it were the switches it wouldn't work coming out of reverse, plus the switches test fine.

Anyone else

Bumpity Bump

 

[Xesvuli420]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

I to am suffering from the same problem in my 2.3L Cobra. It is intermittent just like yours and I am at a loss also. I don?t quite under stand why or how your starter plays into the equation because the issue is coming out of gear not going in; or as it is designed to operate. If the system fails you will never know going into gear. So please help me to understand.

One of my suspicions, in my case, is that the shift cable from the quadrant at the motor to the gearbox is worn/stretched or binding in some way that is preventing the switch from being actuated however that does not explain why manual manipulation of the switch does not always trigger the interrupt.

Question; what is the ?second? switch in the system for? I have not yet been able to find a good explanation. I think it is called an over-rotation switch?

Please study and search before you hijack someones thread! In forums that is considered rude. Not my rule but I follow it.

The dogs in the gear case are designed so that under load, they hold tight. Thats why you need a second of "release" to get them out of gear. The Ign Coil (not the starter) grounds out allowing most of the load to be dropped, allowing the controls to pull it out of gear.

The "second" switch is an overstroke switch. Basically if the module/first switch fails, this switch saves the day. It is merely a backup switch, and is eventually forgotten about when the new "timed" modules released.

As far as your question about it not working when you manually toggle the switch, well thats why Im here. I couldn't either, but once in the water, for most of a day it worked flawlessly.

If you need any more understanding PM me, cause Ive learned a buttload about this circuit! Kinda sucks for me because it seems here at iboats, no one knows the answer.

Good luck

 

[sw33ttooth]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

i set my esa on the trailer a few months ago when it came out of wack so i dont think you need the presure of water on the prop to mess with it. kind of sucks there are a lot of things i like about my cobra and there out of business. esa isnt one of them but its easy to set if it just gets bumped off its setting.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

i set my esa on the trailer a few months ago when it came out of wack so i dont think you need the presure of water on the prop to mess with it.

Not sure what you mean when you say

set my esa

But you cannot test proper actuation of a Cobra Electronic Shift Assist system without having the boat in the water.

 

[Xesvuli420]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

lol bumping again. Still no help received yet... Maybe eventually someone will walk by this thread... fingers crossed

 

[john744]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

I feel your pain an URGE to vist Stuart Hastings' site for a thorough and in depth explanation of the OMC shifting set-up and remedy.


http://www.hastings.org/~stuart/cobra/

 

[bruceb58]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

You do have points in this right?

 

[Xesvuli420]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

I feel your pain an URGE to vist Stuart Hastings' site for a thorough and in depth explanation of the OMC shifting set-up and remedy.


http://www.hastings.org/~stuart/cobra/

Way past that brother! but thanks (Ive even talked to stuart himself about this issue, and we are at a stand still)

You do have points in this right?

Yes, and they are new, and set correctly

 

[john744]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

Wow .......... and I thought I had a wierd one (see http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=424223 for entertaining reading). And since you are desperate, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth hoping it doesn't make matters worse.

O.K. Lets see.. The ESA is basically an electronic circuit that intermittently grounds one side of the ignition coil causing plugs not to fire and generating a low torque moment which allows the clutch dog gears to separate.

There are 2 switches wired in series; the interrupt switch which is N.O. and when closed completes a circuit which activates the module. And in earlier non-modified models, the overstroke switch which is N.C. and opens (deactivating the ESA) when fully engaged in gear. The ESA will only function when the interrupt switch is engaged (is in a closed condition) and the overstroke switch is not engaged (still in a closed circuit condition).

When the switches form a closed circuit, the ESA is active. I imagine internally there is a basic timing circuit driving a transistor. Possibly a 555 timer and associated capacitors and resistors to achieved the desired astable pulse string to drive the transistor. I imagine the transistor was selected to handle the voltage, current, and switching speed required to ground the primary winding of the ignition coil. 4, 6 and 8 cyl engines require different modules due to the number of spark firing pulses expected to be found at idle speed.

So now we need power (+), ground (-), input (the 2 switches) and output (coil/tach). Since the ESA works sometimes, we know that it's getting power, and is wired properly (at least sometimes).

The ESA MUST have a good, solid, reliable ground. Intermittent or resistive grounds will certainly cause failure or unpredictable results. (the latter being of more concern)

And since the problem ONLY happens when shifting from forward to neutral, we could narrow down the possible problem being associated with the mechanical functions of that action, since the electrical functions are identical.

Link to PDF

So what could it be?????

Is it possible that the forward overstroke cam is misadjusted? That is, keeping the overstroke switch in an open condition while attempting to close the interrupt switch. This would result in an open circuit and the ESA would not activate. When fully engage in either forward or reverse, the overstroke switch is depressed by either the forward or reverse overstroke cam on the shift lever. The ESA works when shifting from reverse to neutral, so it seems the reverse cam is set correctly. The problem does occur when shifting from forward to neutral, so it might be possible that this switch is still depressed and or sticking.

Link to PDF

As for why you cannot activate the ESA by hand on land, it could be the same issue. If the overstroke switch is depressed or sticking resulting in an open circuit, the ESA will not activate. To take the overstroke switch out of the equation, bypass it using a jumper, or take it of the assembly (don't lose the screws, or move the cam far out of the way (only to be put back later). I mention these options because there may be no easy way to jump the switch if the lead wires are encapsulated.

Another easy way to test is to unplug the 4 conductor connector from the ESA and use a jumper on the module side to activate the ESA. This will eliminate the switches entirely. If it works by hand on land, you can isolate the issue to the mechanical functions of the switches and shift lever adjustment. Here's the bad part, I'm sitting at home and not at the boat and can't tell you exactly which 2 terminals in the plug to jump. Here's the good news. You can't hurt anything by jumping the wrong terminals. Although there are 4 terminals, only 2 go back to the ESA. 2 are merely a jumper to wire the switches in series. I believe one wire is black and is connected to ground, the other is blue and must be grounded to activate the ESA. So, in other words, get a jumper, connect one side to a known good ground source. Take the other end of the jumper and touch it to each of the 4 terminals on the MODULE side of the connector. When the motor stumbles, you found the right terminal. This does not require the boat to be in the water or need any pressure on the prop. This is testing the activation of the ESA only.

If this doesn't work (stumble the motor each time), then you have a problem upstream. A bad ground, bad conection to the coil, or bad +12 volts supply, or just a bad ESA.

If it does work, your problem is in the shift lever assembly. Reconnect the 4 conductor plug and examine the overstroke cams and confirm the switches operate properly and do not stick. The bend on those wires coming off the switches is a bit severe. It is possible the conductors inside are broken and through motor vibration will cause intermittent connection. If you put this all back together and the overstroke is not the issue, try wiggling the wires while someone else operates the shift. I've also read of guys that found the mounting screws on the switches were binding the mechanism and causing them to stick.

As I said before, I feel your pain & understand the frustration of the situation. I hope this helps and wish for your success.

John

----------------------------------------------------------------------
These links are included as FYI and reference for your convenience;

http://www.sentex.net/~mec1995/gadgets/555/555.html

http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/timer_555.html

http://www.doctronics.co.uk/555.htm

http://www.wellsve.com/custom_searches/ds_coils.php?showall=yes (refer to C832 as a typical ignition coil)

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig108.htm

 

[Rando2438]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

Huh...nothing since July. You either got it fixed and didn?t give the courtesy of a reply or you burned the boat.

I feel you failed to read Hastings site and or the manual completely. I know you spoke with him but did he happen to tell you to adjust all your cable settings? I?m certain he did. And I?m just as certain that you DID NOT! The cable adjustment procedure can be found on this kind gentleman?s site. You must adjust the over stroke as per directions. If you don?t understand the directions then you need to take the boat to someone who does understand how to adjust the over stroke.

This last poster spent far more time and gave far better advice then I have. After your rant about the poor guy stealing your thread I expect many are reluctant to help you out at all. I am new here and so Id thought Id help you out.

Adjust your cable over stroke per manual or from Hastings site....this is your issue. I know this because as you say it works in other positions. The cam for the over stroke switch is most likely ok if you didn?t mess with it...Its your cable adjustments. If however you messed with the cam itself then put it in the middle and adjust your cables. This system when set up properly is as solid and or better than many other systems...BUT the cable adjustments...(there are three separate cables) are critical....Ill repeat that CRITICAL. You are correct to worry about your dog (singular) clutch as well as your forward and reverse gear which will gnash themselves apart to the tune of aprox $1200 in parts alone. In fact I just priced a new transom shift cable assembly...$290 available from Bomb bar de A'...

Your fix is a simple matter?meticulously adjust your cables. Good luck.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: I HATE the &@%# ESA!!! (Well actually I hate not having it) HELP!!! (Please)

Huh...nothing since July. You either got it fixed and didn?t give the courtesy of a reply or you burned the boat.

He hasn't logged in since his last post of July 18th so I kinda doubt it.

By the way, there are only 2 shift cables.