I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

[D Hanny]

Hi guys,

I've been reading a lot of posts about aluminum boat hull painting, but now it's finally time for mine to get started and it seems like all of the different methods I've read about are too much to sort through.

What I'm looking for is an inexpensive and easy hull finish that protects the aluminum from the salt water & corrosion.

The end-result does not need to be perfect in as far as finish, so if I have to sand, I want to sand one time only just to get the primer to adhere.

I don't know much, but I think I've read to use TSP to clean the hull and to etch it - I don't know if that will clean up the white spots and take the oxidized paint away, or if I need to lightly sand all areas first?

My plan that need filled in is something like:

1.) finish taking off the deals
2.) use ___ to take off decal residue (I just bought acetone, so if it would work I will be ahead of the game)
3.) removing the remaining transom hardware (the two sensors and I guess that PVC-pipe looking nut that is for the livewell - I hope it's a standard sized PVC)
4.) (?) lightly sand most everything with __?__ grit
or can I
5.) wash down everything with TSP and scrub it all with a green scotchbrite pad (instead of sanding? or after sanding?)
6. wipe dry
All coatings will go on with a Roll and Tip method unless some other easy method is suggested - I will not be spraying.
7.) (?) ALUMAPROTECT , or some other chromate pre-treat? What is cheap here that works?
8. use a high-build epoxy primer that is safe for aluminum, Perhaps some Interlux product by the gallon (I imagine one or two gallons will be enough). This is the step which I am willing to spend the extra on epoxy for a strong and good finish.
9.) lightly sand epoxy primer?
10.) paint with some inexpensive glossy white paint that will hold up to salt water for a while (suggestions? I'm looking for a smooth finish)

Pictures:

white spots:

oxidation of paint:

high spots:

I don't know if these will fill in more with high-build epoxy primer?

one crack in a bottom - runner - thing:

Not too worried about the crack, but I can have it welded (costly), epoxy it, fill it with something or leave it alone

back of boat:

Is this regular PVC?

Probably should have pulled this apart before flipping it, but I'll take it apart now. My concern is that, being from 1985, it may not be some standard PVC nut or size pipe to replace.

Thanks!

 

[D Hanny]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Three more pictures:

Oxidation powder from underneath the planing plate?

and sticker / decal residue:

 

[D Hanny]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Ok, ugh - I'm starting to change my mind already, so a question:

Which would make for a stronger finish that would resist chips and such if grounded on the beach on occasion:

Self-etching primer and a epoxy paint

or

Epoxy primer and some general good, but not epoxy, paint?

I've got to keep the costs down somehow, so epoxy and epoxy is out. Actually, for the costs of epoxy paint, I'd rather not use it.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Ok, ugh - I'm starting to change my mind already, so a question:

Which would make for a stronger finish that would resist chips and such if grounded on the beach on occasion:

Self-etching primer and a epoxy paint

or

Epoxy primer and some general good, but not epoxy, paint?

I've got to keep the costs down somehow, so epoxy and epoxy is out. Actually, for the costs of epoxy paint, I'd rather not use it.

Hello D and welcome to Iboats..

There is No paint that is going to resist chips or scuffs if grounded on the beach aside from gelcoat ( your not going to go there so thats out )

You also kinda defeated the post of Not using epoxy primer and paint system..Thats the best..

Scuff you bottom up m8.. Cost down..then slap some X on there and use it..

Its not a yacht..its fun. Are you trying to impress your friends ? no ? then use the crap outa that tinny ..butter the sides up with some Fusion and be done with it ( makes the wify happy too ) .

Duck boat it .. or High end it.. your choice and there is no problem.. .. its a tinny

YD.

PS. Im a pro.. I would take that boat out with the kids no matter how it looked ( I wouldnt put a freaking dime into the paint job ) ..

 

[D Hanny]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Making the boat last, since it has been in my family for quite a while, is part of the consideration.

I could ignore all the data about the proper treatments to aluminum, but I'd rather not. I also realize I could go for an ultra cheap process, but I don't see the point in even flipping the boat over if that was a consideration.

Yeah, the overall finish doesn't have to be show quality, but I think I could at least get the corrosion protection right, don't you?

 

[barbosam]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

check out paint systems by Petit or Interlux, these are midrange priced paint systems that are intended for marine enviroments. They should have a detailed process for aluminum applications on their websites or give them a call. Some people have had good results with the rustoleum marine paints sold at Lowes but if your useing it in saltwater I personaly would be skeptical of its durability.

Both Petit and Interlux make true marine paint systems at low to midrange prices and I know they have application information on their websites, check them out. The manufacturer of the paint you decide to use will be the best people to outline your process, their data sheet will tell you exactly what you need to do.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

I'm no expert....but I'm pretty sure the self-etching primer is not optional. Shouldn't cost you much, you only need a light dusting of the stuff. I was able to find Duplicolor's at Pep-Boys in rattle cans very reasonably.

I hate to disagree with barbosam above but I painted my boat with Petit Easypoxy and have determined that it is absolute garbage. In my opinion, you either stick with Rustoleum which gives a pretty darn nice and durable finish for the price, or step up to two part paints. Skip the mid-range stuff.

If it was mine, I'd hit it with a light dusting of Duplicolor self-etch, a coat of Rusto primer and 2 coats of Rusto top coats. Good luck.

 

[tboydva]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

I repainted my boat almost 3 years ago and went to an auto paint place - got epoxy primer and paint. It's held up very well. If you have a good quality grinder, get a stainless (must use for aluminum) wire wheel and run it over all exposed surfaces. A high RPM grinder will get the job done fast and remove all the oxidation.

Here's about 2 hours of effort:

Primer on:

And final coat:

Best of luck!

 

[D Hanny]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Thanks guys, there is a lot to decide.

As the Yacht Dr. made evident, sticking with a company's system is probably the best route, and I got wondering about exactly what barbosam suggested - what are companies with more inexpensive systems? Thanks barbosam!

As for Rustoleum, I'm telling you guys I have 30 years of watching people use, and me attempting to use, Rustoleum products and I have never, ever seen satisfaction (other than hearing it from a few people on this board and with boats). Rustoleum can suck an egg, to be polite, and their products will no longer touch any of my gear.

I actually had written in "will not use any rustoleum product" in my initial post before I had trouble posting it, so it got erased and I left it out for brevity.

Nonetheless, I am willing to try anyone else's system

I keep reading that a good epoxy primer will stick to a cleaned and roughened aluminum hull like glue, and a lot of people seem to suggest painting it directly to the hull after etching with some other product (I've read TSP, Alumiprep, others?), then use Alodine (which I guess takes the place of a etching primer between the hull and the epoxy primer), then an epoxy primer.

I could be very wrong, but it seems that the whole point of using an epoxy primer is adhesion, thus the epoxy primer is what I think I would want closest to the hull as long as I can clean the hull sufficiently.

Thanks for the tip on the stainless wire wheel, tboydva, I do have a angle grinder and will try to look for a good wheel to use for it. Where did you get yours?

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Looks like you are doing a nice job. I had a little fiberglass jon for the past ten+ years (just sold it). I cleaned it up, spray painted with about three cans of paint from Home Depot and after ten years of use and sun and banging around, it still look good. Point is...you don't need to spend a lot of money to make your boat look nice. Reminds me of a story this good ol' boy told me. He was late getting to a gathering and I asked him what was happening. He said in a long southern drawl, "Just painted my car."

"Really?" I said. "I didn't know you had the spray equipment of a place to do it."
"Shucks," he said. "I ain't got no sprayer."
"How did you paint it?
"With a brush."

You gotta realize, he was looking at me like I was asking a dumb question.

I smiled while chuckling (on the inside) and he said, "Wanna see it?"

He was very proud of what he did, and I complimented him on the fine job. He said, "You know what the best part is?"

"I can't imagine," I said.

"No need to wax it. If her gets dull, just slap a coat on it."


True story.

Steve

 

[D Hanny]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Don't get me wrong guys, I appreciate the "do it cheap" methods, but this boat will be used primarily for the intracoastal and flats, so I'm worried about long-term corrosion protection more-so than "Wow, that boat looks good."

And I'm sure a lot of guys got good looking finishes done cheaply, that lasted, on freshwater lakes. It seems like I read about them a lot here on iBoats, but unless people specify that theirs is used 100% in the salt water, and has been for years, I really don't think I should take the "done it cheap" advice.

I'm calling around paint supply stores, and they're giving me the "never heard of roll and tip method - our paints are spray on only" deal that has me wondering if I should avoid their paints altogether, or if this is common with roll & Tip usage?

 

[barbosam]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Well I'm not saying that Petit or Interlux make the best paints but if applied properly most of their products yield decent and fairly durable results. Many marine paint systems are extremely sensitive to ambient and substrate temperature as well as humidity (both ambient humidity and moisture in compressed air). 75% of the paint issues I've seen are due to these issues; the other 25% are from poor prep or inadequate mixing or proportions of the paint.

Like I said earlier if you follow the manufacturers guidlines to the Tee then I have seen products from these manufacturers yield good results

I used home depot paint on the first boat I ever owned and the first time I put it in salt water it peeled right off. Granted I don't remember exactly what type of paint I used but I do remember I bought one of the best primers they sold. If it was my boat no matter how small of a boat or how much money I wanted to save I would definately use a marine paint. Just my opinion.

Check out the paint section here on iboats for some more ideas, or go to jamestown distributors to see a slightly larger selection. The only brands I've had any experience with are Petit, Interlux and Awlgrip (big bucks). I know dupont makes some good products but probably pretty expensive, and I've seen another user mention Super Marine products but I think also on the expensive side.

 

[barbosam]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

roll and tip is popular in the marine industry; if you call an automotive paint supply they won't know what your talking about. Petit, Interlux, Awlgrip and supermarine all outline the correct roll and tip method with their products.

 

[D Hanny]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Ugh, I just spent more than I wanted to, but this should come closer to doing it right.

Jamestown, as I'm sure you guys know, has made a ton of videos for how-to stuff. After calling more local paint suppliers, and remembering Jamestown's own video on roll and tip methods, I figured they would sure know what I was talking about, and would guide me right. I just went with Interlux Interprotect (as in these steps here, but like many who trailer their boats I will be skipping the antifoulant paint).

Thanks guys. At least I am closer to doing it correctly.

I don't know if a shallow-running 17' boat will need one gallon or two of the interprotect though. I ordered two just in case. I really, really, hope it won't take more than that.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

I highly doubt you'll even finish that first gallon.

 

[fisherguy123]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

When I was in the armed forces we did the refinishing of the Orion Patrol aircraft which flew very low over the ocean on anti-sub patrols and corrosion was a major problem. In our refinishing process we used the following steps to attain long lasting results: total stripping of finish with paint remover; wash with ketone or toluene; treat with Alodine metal prep; spay with vynal etch primer; spray with epoxy primer;spray with epoxy topcoat. The key to anti-corrossion is the Alodine treatment.
Just google up the Alodine and you can get more info on it.
Hope this info may be helpfull to you.

 

[D Hanny]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

When I was in the armed forces we did the refinishing of the Orion Patrol aircraft which flew very low over the ocean on anti-sub patrols and corrosion was a major problem. In our refinishing process we used the following steps to attain long lasting results: total stripping of finish with paint remover; wash with ketone or toluene; treat with Alodine metal prep; spay with vynal etch primer; spray with epoxy primer;spray with epoxy topcoat. The key to anti-corrossion is the Alodine treatment.
Just google up the Alodine and you can get more info on it.
Hope this info may be helpfull to you.

I have been told, just today, that Alodine was taken off of the consumer market, and that it would be very tough to find. But now I see it online for order.

If I can find it locally I'll pick it up. Would boat places have it, or ... ?

Edit: It also seems that there are various series of Alodine finishes. Anyone happen to know of the correct application for aluminum in salt water? Looks like 1201 is what I want.

 

[fisherguy123]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

I have been told, just today, that Alodine was taken off of the consumer market, and that it would be very tough to find. But now I see it online for order.

If I can find it locally I'll pick it up. Would boat places have it, or ... ?

Edit: It also seems that there are various series of Alodine finishes. Anyone happen to know of the correct application for aluminum in salt water? Looks like 1201 is what I want.

saw this site online .....not off market obviously....http://www.rci-products.com/ALUMINUMFINISHES.html

 

[Silver Heels]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

I always thought that the best finish for aluminum in terms of corrosion protection is the natural oxides that form on bare aluminum. Its when saltwater gets under paint through chips or scratches that saltwater gets trapped, and with the lack of oxygen, starts eating the aluminum away. I do not boat in saltwater now, but when I was in the Coast Guard, I boated on both the Great Lakes and the Gulf of Mexico. The 41' UTB that has been the standard workhorse in the Coast Guard for 30 some years is aluminum hulled. Here in the Great lakes, they are painted white. In saltwater environments (and they sit in saltwater as opposed to being trailered), the aluminum is left bare. Also, all of the newer CG boats that are aluminum, i.e. the 25' and the 45', etc are left bare. So, if your primary reason for painting is corrosion protection, IMHO- skip it. If you desire paint for its appearence, then others can help you, as I am no expert.

 

[fisherguy123]

Re: I would appreciate help with my Aluminum hull prep and refinish steps

Also, all of the newer CG boats that are aluminum, i.e. the 25' and the 45', etc are left bare. So, if your primary reason for painting is corrosion protection, IMHO- skip it.

here in Newfoundland commercial fishermen are using similar size boats which are left in the salt water which are also left bare but these boats are welded construction rather than riveted and of very heavy gauge metal. The first place that corrosion attacks on most small aluminum boats in my experience is around the rivets where paint is peeling. Alodine treatment is so thin it will pentrate right up to the seal of the rivets where topcoats can`t get. You don`t have to paint it but it will turn the metal to a colour like weak tea, not very attractive and that is why I painted the boats I treated with this chemical. Here is a link to some good info about corrosion on aluminum boats from a manufacturer. There seems to be a lot of variables as to why aluminum corrodes. http://www.duroboat.com/experience/AluminumBoatsandCorrossion.htm