Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

cjflanagan

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I have a 1989, 23 foot Glastron Futura. I am interested in upgrading the power and speakers for my radio. It already has a perfectly fine am/fm with CD which I do not want to replace, but the 4 small JVC box speakers sound tinny, and don't turn up over the wind. I am interested in a fundamental amplifier and 4 better, flush mount speakers. I DO NOT want to spend much and would be perfectly happy with something that didn't thump, thump, thump or was bling, bling, bling. I guess on the stereo scale of 1 to 10, 10 being high, I'm looking at a 3-4. I just don't know what I need! Any suggestions? (EDIT) :confused:
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

I would start by looking at prespective mounting locations for the new speakers. Available mounting space will dictate what size speakers you can use. It is also important to have some space behind the speakers as this will have a big impact on the bass response. As for an amplifier, I can't recommend a particular brand, but would suggest that you get one that has at least a 150 watt per channel power rating and match your speakers accordingly. Most speakers that are "blown" are usually a result of an underpowered amplifier being driven too hard and distorting, distortion kills speakers (doesn't sound too good either). You said that you wanted to keep it simple, so I guess crossovers, multiple amps and subwoofers are out. By the way, don't skimp on the wiring for your new amp,make sure that it is powered with good thick cable (gauge would depend on size of amp).
 

cjflanagan

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Thanks for your advise. There are several locations in the front, sides, and rear, of the cockpit that would accept anything from 3 inch to 12 inch speakers with plenty of room behind too. So given that size is not an issue, what would you suggest? Is bigger better? On the amp, if I wanted 4 speakers should I have 4 channels at 150 per channel with four 150 watt speakers? I think that's what you are saying...
 

islandboat

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Add an amp for better sound quality. I bought the Pyle 1000 watt marine amp for about $130. Sounds great with Pioneer 6.5 speakers. It's a 4 channel amp that only puts out about 35 watts per speaker, but that's plenty.
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Boiling, what size speakers and how much power depends on several factors: 1)what type of music do you listen to 2)what volume level do want the system to operate at while the boat is running (background, just above engine noise, to it's my favorite song I don't want to even hear the engine...I want to jam !) 3) What is your home stereo and car stereo's like ( are they top notch....or just something to listen to ).<br />Assuming that you are "middle of the road" on all of the above and do not listen to rap music nor need to "feel" your music, but occaisonally like to hear your music clearly with all but the lowest octave of bass, I would suggest the following: 4 6.5inch or 8 inch two way speakers, and a four channel amp with a power rating of 100 watts (or more) per channel @ 4 ohms. If you are particular about your sound, I would also recomend an equalizer to fine tune things a bit ( 7 -10 bands should be sufficient). If you do get an equalizer, don't use it to try to get the system to do what it isn't capable of (such as boosting the bass by 12 db, or putting a "smilely face" on it) but to slightly tune the system to your personal preference. A word about "watts", for a system to get just 3db louder (barely percievable) you need double the power of the amplifier. To achieve a real difference of volume (9-12 db) you need 6-8 times the power, if you also want to add a little more bass, that can easily mean 10 or more times the power you started with. Assuming that your current am/fm/cd player puts out 10 watts per channel....you can see how much power you need to get the level up and have it sound decent.
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Sorry to double post, but I wanted to give you a few "budget numbers". Pyle has a 100watt per channel, 4 channel amp (pla4370) for $184.00, Lagacy has a four channel, 200 watt per channel amp (LA660) $159.00 . Lagacy also has a 12 band EQ (LEQ12A) $70.00 . By the way, none of the above are "marine" units, however if you keep them dry and away from salt water....there will not be a problem with that. Pyle also has some great 8" three way speakers (PLG 694) 90 watts RMS/180 watt peak $50.00 per pair, I used these on my last boat....they rock. They're not marine speakers, but they are polypropolene cones with rubber surrounds (water proof cones) and work great. The included grilles are black, so you might want to spray paint the grills white. By the way you said that your existing stereo is JVC...they also make some good amps and speakers.
 

cjflanagan

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Thanks for your help!!!!<br /><br />1= Rock mostly, not much interested in rap, hip hop, or country western. <br />2= My wife is always telling me to "turn stuff down" so I'd say the happy side of loud for me ;o) but, I would be embarrassed to bother other folks on the lake if I were in close proximity of others. But I can surely imagine rocking out once and a while.<br />3= My car stereo is just the factory job, and my home stereo has a simple Onkyo tuner with standard Klipch speakers and a Sony CD changer.<br /><br />A Couple other things...<br />What is RMS?<br />What is MOSFET?<br />What is MEHSA?<br />What is Topaz?<br />Nomad?
 

cjflanagan

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

PYLE PLA885 4 CHANNEL 1000 WATT CAR AMPLIFIER $64 <br /><br />250 Watts x 4 Output <br />500 Watts x 2 Bridged Output 250 Watts x 2 + 500 Watts x 1 <br />Variable Hi/Lo Electronic X-Over Network <br />Variable Bass Boost(0-+18dB @ 60Hz) <br />Variable Input Level (Gain) Control <br />Remote Turn On/Off <br />Gold Plated RCA Inputs <br />High Level MOLEX Input <br />Power LED Indicator <br />LED Protection Indicator <br />S/N Ratio: 95dB <br />THD:<1.04% <br />Thermal, Overload, Short Circuit Protection <br />Anti-Thump Turn-On <br />Tri-Mode Configurable
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Boiling point, this is the fun part with car audio equipment.....you have to sift through over-rated, puffed up specs to see what you are really looking at. First thing, a little history on car stereo specs. Years ago car audio manufacturers were so dishonest with their power ratings that the federal trade commision stepped in and came up with a universal way to measure power output. That rating is called the FTC rating. To this day quite a few companies "bury" that spec or put it in such fine print that you can't read it. What you will find, in big print are unrealistic ratings like the ones that you posted. The first thing to look at is to make sure the power rating is RMS (Root Means Square, it is a mathmatical equation that is applied to the peak voltage an amp puts out while reproducing a sine wave, and gives you a real valid measurement of power) and not "peak power" or "music power". The next thing is to see what the distortion is at that level.....there should be a decimal point BEFORE the number, not like the spec you posted with a number before the decimal place. Amps will continue to put out more power right into real nasty distortion ( not good to listen to and hard on speakers). To get a realistic power rating of an amp that is rated at 1.0% distortion, you need to divide the power by two or three. The next thing is what impedance (ohms) the power rating is taken at, while some people buy into what the car stereo manufacturers push on people, in my opinion, any power rating listed at less than 4 ohms, should be divided by two, to get a realistic rating. There are other things, but these are the main things to look at. From what you posted about that pyle amp, I would say that amp would really put out about 50 watts per channel (without getting out the calculator or putting the amp on the bench and running some tones through it). A decent ftc spec would look something like this : 100 watts per channel @4 ohms, both channels driven, 20HZ-20,000 HZ at less than .05 % THD(total harmonic distortion). With all of the hassels of running cables, connecting things and mounting the components, I would spend a little more money to get something I would be happy with. Oh, you asked about some terms, I think we covered RMS above. MOSFET is a type of transistor that is used either in the power supply or as outputs ( way too long to talk about the why's and whats.....not a good thing, not a bad thing, just a way to make it work). The other terms are not really industry or electronic terms, but more like cute "names" that Fosgate gave to some of their "features" on their amps.
 

beniam

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Boiling point 212<br /> Een schip op het strand is een baken in zee.<br /><br />Murfreesboro, TN ligt aan de zee? Heeft een strand?<br />Be happy, enjoy life and boat lots.Batavier
 

captain spike

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

bp212,try your local junkyard for a cheap after market radio and amp.ive had one in my boat for three years and knock on wood never had a problem. <br /> <br /> ***1971 18'winner 1969 115 jonny***<br /> "THURSDAY"
 

cjflanagan

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

WaterOne1- This is great information! I am going to start looking now. Is there a place where you can compare FTC ratings against price, or can you recommend a brand that posts the FTC in their specs?<br /><br />Batavier- Ik wens dat Murfreesboro bij de kust ben! Het zou voor veel beter varen maken.!!<br />Haha, Groetjes - bp212
 

cjflanagan

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Ok I'm starting to catch on... but what do you do if the rating was taken at greater than 4 ohms like this one I found @ 8?<br /><br />Power: 100 Watts per Channel (FTC, Left/Right, 20Hz - 20kHz, 0.09% THD, 8 ohms)
 

cjflanagan

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Sorry to be such a sponge, but what does "bridged" mean in this example:<br /><br />2 x 300 watts @ 8 Ohms bridged FTC: 20Hz - 20kHz, .03% THD
 

beniam

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

BP212<br /><br />toen ik een jonge jonge was<br />en dat was lang geleden<br />dan kwam ik naar Amerika<br />daar ben ik nu tevreden<br /> R'dam '45 <br />Batavier
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: Ideas About An Inexpensive Sound System?

Sorry I do not know of a site that has all ftc power ratings and prices (there may be one...I just don't know about it). As for the 8 ohm rating, I like that even better, as long as the amp is rated at the load impedence you will be using it at. Decent quality power amps will almost double their power as the impedence halves, right down to the point that the amplifiers internal power supply starts to give up, or the output transistors cook. As an example, an amp rated at 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms, will put out close to 200 watts per channel at 4 ohms, some amps are rated down to 2 or even 1 ohms. I am not one to push a design to it's limits, so if I see an amp that is rated down to two ohms, I will only run down to a 4 ohm load on it. That kind of brings us back to some of the "power games" we talked about last night. For instance, lets assume that the amp you described that is 100 wattts per channel at 8 ohms, if it is rated down to two ohms, it will produce about 325 watts per channel at 2 ohms. Now if you don't know what impedence the power rating is at......your amp could be listed at 100 watts, while another amp is listed at 325 amps...you would think the second one is a larger amp.....that is why you need to know all of the specs. Now onto some more detailed things like bridging : Audio is Ac (alternating current) even if it is powered by Dc (direct current), because audio is Ac, that is the reason that a speaker cone moves in and out, the higher the frequency, the faster it moves in and out. In all designs, other than low power or very expensive audiophile equipment, there are at least two output devices (transistors) to move the speaker in and out, one transistor moves it out, the other moves it in. One transistor is reproducing the negative part of the AC waveform, the other is reproducing the positive side. What some manufacturers do to increase the power output on multi channel amps, is to give you the option to bridge the amp by flipping a switch, in that mode of operation, one whole amp channel will reproduce the positive part of the waveform and another whole channel will reproduce the negative part of the waveform, when an amp has two channels bridged, they will come close to quadrupling the output power into a single load. As usual, you don't get something for nothing, so while the amp is putting out more power while bridged, it cannot drive as low of impedence load as the individual channels can in the non-bridged mode. An amp capable of bridging, gives you more options as far as matching it to your speakers and how you want to set up your system. As an example, lets say that you had a four channel amp that put out 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms and a nice distortion rating of less than.08%,and lets say that the amp is rated down to two ohms per channel. Now lets say that you had two 6.5 inch, 4 ohm,full range speakers and a single 12 inch 8 ohm subwoofer. If the above amp did not have any bridging capabilities....you would kind of be screwed, or at least not able to balance things to well, in this case you would have two channels connected to your full range speakers(putting out almost 200 watts per channel) and a single channel connected to your subwoofer putting out 100 watts....and one channel not being used. That is a four to 1 ratio of high end to bass....not good. If you take the same amp, and add the capability of bridging any two channels....you would end up with channels 1 and 2 being connected to the full range speakers (200 watts each) and channels 3 and 4 being bridged into the subwoofer (400 watts)....2 X 200 watts for the high, and one 400 watt for the low....not bad at all. I will point out that some people would say "hey lets push that amp to the limit" they would wire two 4 ohm speakers in parallel on each channel (2 ohm load) for the highs, and use either a pair of 12" 8 ohm subs or a single 4 Ohm 12" sub on the bridged channels.....you can do this,and it will get louder....but to me, that is the same thing as using a 4 cylinder engine in the truck you use to tow your boat....it will get you there, but how hard is that engine working, compared to a big V-8 ?
 
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