Ignition shock

[Wonbigfish]

I have a 98 Palm Beach 16.5 ft with a 90 HP Force Outboard. I recently replaced a voltage regulator & igition switch. Last trip out the kill circuit was malfuctioning so I disconnected it at the voltage regulator and run a temp wire to shut motor off. We also had a shock condition where as the kill switch would zap you. We then noticed we were getting shocked if the floor of the boat was wet. Note it was salt water & it can carry a current easier than fresh water. My thinking was it had to be an issue with ignition switch I installed several months ago. I removed it from the dash & then removed the black tape I put around the heat shrink butt connectors used on initial install. I then reconnected the kill circuit wire & kill switch. To my surprise the electricutions quit and boat ran good. But I noticed at low idle it sometimes ran rough and clear up above idle. Can anyone point me in a direction that might repair my condition. I sure it's liable to return.

Wonbigfish

 

[gm280]

Re: Ignition shock

I have a 98 Palm Beach 16.5 ft with a 90 HP Force Outboard. I recently replaced a voltage regulator & igition switch. Last trip out the kill circuit was malfuctioning so I disconnected it at the voltage regulator and run a temp wire to shut motor off. We also had a shock condition where as the kill switch would zap you. We then noticed we were getting shocked if the floor of the boat was wet. Note it was salt water & it can carry a current easier than fresh water. My thinking was it had to be an issue with ignition switch I installed several months ago. I removed it from the dash & then removed the black tape I put around the heat shrink butt connectors used on initial install. I then reconnected the kill circuit wire & kill switch. To my surprise the electricutions quit and boat ran good. But I noticed at low idle it sometimes ran rough and clear up above idle. Can anyone point me in a direction that might repair my condition. I sure it's liable to return.

Wonbigfish

Exactly where were you connecting the kill switch wires too? Sounds like the spark plug wires to be getting a shock through the kill switch. Those kill switches are not suppose to stop (and won't stop) tens of thousands of volts but merely the lower voltages on the primary side of the ignition... I'd re-inspect the entire kill switch circuit for proper installation...

 

[Wonbigfish]

Re: Ignition shock

Just 2 wires to a toogle switch. When circuit is closed it kills engine. The shock does feel like a coil shock

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Ignition shock

Oh yes, the kill or shut off wires from the CD modules do carry hi-voltage while motor is running. That is perfectly normal. That is the same high voltage that is being fed to the ignition coil but to turn off the engine, the wire when grounded shunts the voltage thus by-passing the coils and stopping the engine. As for the rough idling, you need to make sure your idle rpm is not too low (around 700-800 in gear or 800-900 in neutral). Ensure the air screws (air-fuel mix screws) are set 1 to 1 1/8 turn out from slightly seated. If you suspect your kill switch is causing the rough idle disconnect the shut off wire for now to verify. Just make sure you have some ways to shut off the engine just in case. In emergency shut off, you basically choke the carbs by putting your hand over it.

 

[gm280]

Re: Ignition shock

Jiggz, yes I can understand the CDI voltage to the primary side of the coils shocking a person, but through the kill switch? Not unless the kill switch has a problem... CDI voltages are high (in the hundreds of volts, not thousands) and will give you a real good shock. But most any type switch will prevent such voltages from reaching the user.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Ignition shock

Jiggz, yes I can understand the CDI voltage to the primary side of the coils shocking a person, but through the kill switch? Not unless the kill switch has a problem... CDI voltages are high (in the hundreds of volts, not thousands) and will give you a real good shock. But most any type switch will prevent such voltages from reaching the user.

Do you know of any wire that goes to the ignition switch or the kill switch that carries high voltage, I mean above the battery potential, besides the kill wire or shut off wire from the CD modules? It's obvious the cause of the shocks is due to improperly installed kill switch wires although this was not directly explained by the owner.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Ignition shock

What kind of spark plugs are in the engine?

 

[Wonbigfish]

Re: Ignition shock


The kill switch is a simple on/off switch with only 2 terminals. I tried to attach picture.
My plugs are gapless type as recomended by Force/Mercury.

 

[gm280]

Re: Ignition shock

Do you know of any wire that goes to the ignition switch or the kill switch that carries high voltage, I mean above the battery potential, besides the kill wire or shut off wire from the CD modules? It's obvious the cause of the shocks is due to improperly installed kill switch wires although this was not directly explained by the owner.

I think we both are alluding to the same issue. That being there is something not wired correctly at the engine side of this. No kill switch should ever be shocking anybody ever. That was why I asked if he had the wires coming from the spark plug wires themselves and not the correct ignition connections. Switches, even metal toggle paddle switches, have an isolation between the metal and the actual contacts to eliminate such happenings. So he has the engine side wiring problems in my opinion. The insulation in any switch can not handle spark plug voltages and it will jump across that insulation joint internally pretty easy too... So he needs to check the engine wiring for a problem... again JMHO

 

[MikDee]

Re: Ignition shock

If you don't have them, IMO, I recommend resistor spark plugs! They would have an "R" in the number. A lot of marine engines have metal stranded spark plug wire. Without resistor plugs, the spark is strong, & unstable, especially in a wet environment. You might get arcing, crossfiring, and shocks. Resistor plugs direct this excess energy to the spark plug.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Ignition shock

Wonbigfish, I looked at you original comments where you said that you replaced the rectifier/regulator. You mentioned that you disconnected the the kill switch wire from the rectifier/regulator. Exactly what wire did you disconnect? The kill switch wire does not go to the Rectifier/Regulator. The only wires that go to the Regulator/Rectifier are the yellow battery charging windings from the stator, then the 12VDC red wire that goes to the battery, and possibly a Gray wire for the tach. The kill switch wire goes to the Black/Yellow wires on the CDM's (coil packs).

 

[gm280]

Re: Ignition shock

^ 1+ Good point there pnwboat. I didn't catch that either.

 

[Wonbigfish]

Re: Ignition shock

The kill wire on regulator is black with yellow stripe. I didn't have to cut any wires at all. All of the connections were bullet type connections

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Ignition shock

Hmmm....The Black/Yellow wire is the correct color, but like I said, it does not come off of the regulator. What year motor is it? Can you post a picture of the ignition system?

 

[Wonbigfish]

Re: Ignition shock

It is a 1998 90 hp Force 3 cylinder 2 stroke.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Ignition shock

The regulator is not part of the ignition system. The B/Y wire should go to the CDM's (coil packs). If you look at the 4 wire modular connector on each CDM, you'll see a B/Y wire on each one. These three B/Y wires all get tied together at a bullet connector on the motor. That bullet connector should connect to a single corresponding B/Y wire in the harness, which eventually goes up to the Kill Switch.

All the regulator does is charge the battery and provide a tach signal..... usually a gray wire. The ignition system is self energizing. You can disconnect the regulator and the battery. You can pull start the motor by simply wrapping some rope around the flywheel and if you can get the flywheel spinning fast enough, the motor will run just fine.

If the B/Y wire was coming off of the regulator, then someone may have mis-wired it at some point. That may also be why the original regulator failed, which you replaced.

 

[Wonbigfish]

Re: Ignition shock

I will check it out this evening. I can't be wrong, only mistaken.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Ignition shock

If the initial set up had the Kill switch wire coming off of the Regulator, then the Kill Switch probably had no affect. Maybe that would give you the impression that the switch was bad? I don't know but something doesn't sound quite right with the wiring if the B/Y wire was originally coming off of the Regulator.

 

[Wonbigfish]

Re: Ignition shock

I was wrong black/yellow does go to coils from under flywheel

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Ignition shock

OK that makes more sense, so we're back to square one. Wiring appears to be correct. The B/Y wire should go to the wiring harness that eventually goes up to your Kill Switch. Inspect the insulation on it where it passes under the flywheel or any other spots where it could be rubbing. Make sure the insulation isn't worn off exposing the bare wire someplace. As far as the shock that you were getting, I would suspect that there was an issue with the temporary wire that you ran. Now that you've got it connected back to the original configuration, that problem looks like it is solved. What was causing the shock with the temporary wire that you ran is hard to say at this point

As far as the rough running at idle, that's another issue. First thing to look at is the plugs, make sure they are not fouled. Second look at your compression. 120LBS would be minimal acceptable reading but that's a little subjective too. Readings should be within 10% from highest to lowest. Also make sure that the fuel recirculation lines are not plugged up or leaking and the check valves are operating correctly. You should have an in-line fuel filter between the fuel pump and carburetors. When was the last time you changed the fuel pump diaphragm?