Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

[45Auto]

I was browsing through the magazines today at the boat shop and the June 2010 issue of Boating magazine has a comparison of a Stingray 235 and a Grady White 230 with different size engines. Summary is:

Stingray 235
--------4.3L-----5.0L-----5.7L
MPG----3.92-----4.42-----4.84

Grady White 230
--------F250 OB-----F300 OB
MPG-----2.78---------3.15

In both cases, the 23' boats got better mileage with the bigger engine. The bigger engine on on both boats saved about $1,000 in fuel cost over 300 hours. The I/O listed at an additional $4,000 over the sticker price of the V6, while the 300HP OB only listed about $1300 more than the 250HP.

Maybe that's why I lean towards bigger engines, I've never bought a new vehicle in my life. I prefer to let someone else eat the "instant depreciation" and difference in sticker prices off the showroom floor, so I can have the benefits of the bigger engine AND better mileage without paying for it!

 

[mattpyle]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

Yep bigger motors usually have to work less, and run at lower RPM's to get going, thus use less fuel. If go go wide open though that's another story.

 

[dockwrecker]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

I had twin 350's in a 26' Fiberform Baja. Boat wet weighed 9200 with 120 gals of fuel. Many a trip touring with friends with light 20's at Lake Powell and when we pulled in for fuel, same fuel consumption. There's no substitute for torque.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

My favorite fishing spot in Voyagers is about 12 miles from the landing. With the old clunker and a 10 horse Johnyrude, it used to take about 1 3/4 hours and 2 gallons of gas.

With the 150 horse bass boat it takes 12 minutes and 3 gallons. An hour and a half of fishing is worth more to me than a gallon of gas, not to mention it's a lot of fun threading a coarse around the islands at a mile a minute.

my 02
John

 

[JimS123]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

Maybe that's why I lean towards bigger engines, I've never bought a new vehicle in my life. I prefer to let someone else eat the "instant depreciation" and difference in sticker prices off the showroom floor, so I can have the benefits of the bigger engine AND better mileage without paying for it!

To each his own. I'm of the other persuasion....but then again I research the heck out of it before I buy it, keep it till I'm old and grey, then give it to one of my sons or sell it for more than I paid for it. So, depreciation is nonexistant.

For example, my 30 year old "land yacht" (my towcar) that I bought new in 1980 was just appraised at 25% more than I paid for it. The appraiser even offered to buy it.

Most of my friends and acquaintenances have had some pretty bad luck with used stuff. After talking with other boaters and reading the comments and questions on the boards, I'm convinced that nobody but you and me know anything about boats or how to maintain them.....and I'm not so sure about you!!! (LOL - that was an old fisherman's joke).

Truthfully, though, you never know whether you are just buying somebody else's trouble. Now, if you're into restorations, and know what to expect upfront, that's another story.

Of course, as they say, YMMV.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

There is one thing for sure.The deprecation of your boat and motor will be directly proportional to the size of the motor when fuel goes back to $ 4 per gallon. No matter what the fuel economy.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

The deprecation of your boat and motor will be directly proportional to the size of the motor when fuel goes back to $ 4 per gallon. No matter what the fuel economy.

That's true. I got a killer deal on my current boat 3 years ago because the vast majority of people don't do any research and just ASSuME that the smaller motors get better mileage. Nice thing about it is that if you do some research you can get the bigger motor CHEAPER and be getting better gas mileage than the smaller motor they paid more for! Then it seems that as fuel prices flucuate back down, the big motors get real popular again as people want to move up from their underpowered boats. Current prices for boats older than mine with more hours on them are almost twice what I paid for mine 3 years ago.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

sell it for more than I paid for it. So, depreciation is nonexistant.

For example, my 30 year old "land yacht" (my towcar) that I bought new in 1980 was just appraised at 25% more than I paid for it. The appraiser even offered to buy it.

Wasn't going to say anything, but what the heck, maybe it'll help somebody.

Hopefully you have a better understanding of depreciation than what comes across above. If you really think selling something today for 25% more than what you paid for it in 1980 means that it hasn't depreciated, you have given away a lot of money over the years.

As commonly used, depreciation is the reduction in value of an asset over time. The value of money does not stay constant over time! To calculate depreciation in real dollars you need to consider the time value of money. Inflation since 1980 has been 165%. In other words, goods that you paid $10,000 for back in 1980 cost you $26,450 today.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

So if you bought your land yacht for $10,000 in 1980 and sold it for 25% more today, you would get $12,500. Unfortunately, to replace it with equivelent goods would cost you over $25,000, considering only inflation. So your asset has experienced a reduction in value of over 50%, or in other words a depreciation of over 50% in todays dollars.

Sounds like we're around the same age. I also bought a car in 1980. We're a lot alike in that I also do a lot of research, but then I wait till I find what I'm looking for in the condition I want. I had just got out of the Army in 1980, making a big $3,600/year if I recall correctly. I had a little over $9,000 in the bank and HAD to have a cool car. A new Trans Am WS6 Special Edition was $8,600. After some looking I found a like-new 1978 WS6 SE with less than 15K miles being sold for $5,000 by a school teacher that was moving to some island in the Caribbean that I don't recall now. I also bought $3,000 of Lockheed stock after I bought the Trans Am.

I sold the Trans Am in 1985 for $6,000. I didn't really make $1,000 on it because inflation was running over 10% a year at the time, so money was worth less. Inflation from 1980 to 1985 was 30%. Means I would have had to sell it for $6,500 to get the same amount of purchasing power in 1985 dollars that I had for $5,000 back in 1980. I still have the Lockheed stock (kind of funny because I started working for Martin Marietta in 1985, they merged with Lockheed in 1994 to become Lockheed Martin). The $3,000 in 1980 Lockheed stock was worth a little over $106,000 last week.

My current "land yacht" tow vehicle (pic below) is a 1999 3/4 ton 4WD Suburban that I bought 2 years ago for $3,000. It was a Texas housewife's grocery getter with 67,000 miles on it, looks like new. Tires were almost brand new, still have about 75% tread today. Has leather interior, 3 row seats, front/rear AC, DVD/TV in the roof, etc, etc. They traded it in when it started getting balky about starting. The ignition switch would turn on, but it wouldn't go to the "start" position. I had to jump it across the starter solenoid to test drive it at the dealer's. Definitly helped in the price negotiations! I replaced the $40 ignition switch the day I bought it and it's been perfect since then. An equivelent 2008 Suburban at the time listed for over $43,000.

http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chevrolet-Suburban+2500-2008-LT__4x4/overview/

I prefer my money to work for me, not the car dealer!

Nothing wrong with buying new stuff and keeping it forever if that's what you like. However, in calculating lifecycle costs, take the time value of money into account. Don't try to fool yourself that you're making money on it and aren't suffering depreciation.

It is possible (but extremely rare) to stay ahead of the curve with toys and vehicles if you're lucky. I passed up a Hemi Roadrunner for $700 (almost perfect condition, he wanted to buy a Yamaha RD400) from a friend of mine when I was in the Army. They're going for over $100,000 today ......

 

[JimS123]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

Interesting bantor...I like vollying with you....yes, we are alike....LOL

Your economics are textbook MBA curriculum. Its how a corporate CFO justifies capital expenditures. Unfortunately, (or fortunately) personal boats and cars are intangibles that have no utility except in your own mind. Things like pride of ownership are not considered.

The factories I design and build have but one purpose....to make money. My customers are only concerned with the bottom line - how much money can I save them and how fast can it get done. On the other hand, I didn't buy the toys in my garage to save money.

This discussion started out by comparing buying new vs. buying second hand. We have gotten a bit off topic here in that regard.

Capital equipment is depreciated by companies for tax purposes. The yearly percentage usually depends on the life of the unit. In the case of personal property, depreciation only applies if and when you go to sell it.

I could have banked (or invested) the money back in 1980 and have a tidy sum now. But, I would not have had the use of the car all these years. Alternately, I could have bought used, saved a few thousand, banked the rest and had the car and the money now. But, that's assuming I could have found a one owner cherry. Truth be told, "nobody" takes care of their toys as well as I do, so it would be highly unusual for me to be satisfied with something that somebody else got rid of because it wasn't good enough for them.

I will debate that my car depreciated. Anything that goes up in value is called appreciation. No matter that inflation outpaced it.....it didn't go down like all the other cars on the block.

I won't debate that I could have saved money by buying used. But, when your one-owner, never-driven-in-winter, original-paint, classic limited production toy gets a best-in-show award at cruise night....well, the value of that is priceless.

I also hate to subsidize my local auto dealer....and i don't. Heck, he's already gone broke waiting for 30 years for me to buy a new car....LOL.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Interesting Comparison of motor size vs fuel consumption

Forgot about this thread until I referenced it in another post ? one of the disadvantages of summer here, things move off the front pages real quick. Looks like several interesting concepts here!

1) _____________________________________________________

Anything that goes up in value is called appreciation.

So if the dollar is worth half as much tomorrow, does that mean to you that everything you own just doubled in ?value? ? By your definition, which ignores inflation, pretty much EVERYTHING appreciates. Hard to have a discussion if you make up your own definitions of commonly used terms. I use the common definition of value which considers the time value of money. Saying something ?goes up in value? implies the passage of time. How can you determine a change in value over time, if you ignore the effects of time on what you?re using to measure it against? It's like thinking you have a bigger boat if the standards were changed today so that 6 inches equals 1 foot. Your 26 year old 19 foot boat would be a 38 foot boat now. Same thing happens with dollars over the years with inflation. No way to tell if your junk is bigger or more valuable unless you equalize the units of measure.

Feel free to show what method you are using to compare the value of your ?land yacht? in 1980 versus it's value in 2010. It will be interesting to see what you come up with. This website provides all 7 of the accepted ways to measure value. You can only go up to 2008 if you use a couple of them because they haven?t been established for 2009 yet:

http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

We can use your land yacht for an example. I was more into Trans Ams and Corvettes in that time frame, but it looks like an Eldorado, which listed for about $16,000 in 1980. Depending on the method you use, for its value to remain constant, you would have to be able to sell it today for somewhere between $36,000 and $82,000, depending on which method you think is most appropriate. Here?s the current value of your $16,000 1980 dollars:

If you can get 25% more than it?s purchase price of $16,000, then the $20,000 you could get for selling it means it has lost anywhere between 50% to 75% of its value, depending on which method of measure you use. If you consider that appreciation, more power to you!

Nobody I know considers 20,000 2010 dollars to have more value than 16,000 1980 dollars. If you won a lottery and had the choice of $16,000 today or $20,000 in 2040, which one would you take? Most people would take the most valuable option, I can?t imagine ANYONE who would think that $20,000 in 2040 would be more valuable than $16,000 today.

Maybe you should move to Zimbabwe. Their inflation rate is running about 100% per day. In other words, the cost of something in Zimbabwe dollars (or ?value? by your definition) doubles every day. You would be a millionaire within a week, and a billionaire in a little over 2 weeks just with your land yacht! You could easily own the world within a month!

2) ______________________________________________________

But, when your one-owner, never-driven-in-winter, original-paint, classic limited production toy gets a best-in-show award at cruise night....well, the value of that is priceless.

You get to set the ?value? of what your cruise night best-in-show award means to you since it?s intangible and means nothing. Saying it is ?priceless? is meaningless, since there?s no way anyone can offer you anything in exchange for the experience. I would bet that if there was a way someone could offer you cash for that experience you would very quickly discover exactly what it was worth to you. Do you really believe that if someone offered you the choice between $10,000,000 or winning some BS cruise night award you would take the cruise night award? Talk is cheap when there?s no way to prove it. My wife?s all original 1972 Spitfire won best-in-show at both cruise nights we ever took it to, and I?d sell those right now if somebody had a way to give me $10K each for them. I could take the $20K and buy your car from you and win all the rest I wanted to!

3) ______________________________________________________

But, when your one-owner, never-driven-in-winter, original-paint, classic limited production toy gets a best-in-show award at cruise night

I also hate to subsidize my local auto dealer....and i don't. Heck, he's already gone broke waiting for 30 years for me to buy a new car

Ok, just wondering here. You don?t buy anything but new stuff, and you haven?t bought a new car in 30 years. You must be in great shape after all that walking or bicycling over those 30 winters, or are your other vehicles over 30 years old also? Are you making money on them too?