Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

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zzzzz

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Jan 13, 2003
Messages
1,094
At a recent seminar in Orlando,one of the BRP representatives brought up an interesting fact. In testing-they put an average 4 stroke engine in a sealed box and ran it until it died from carbon monoxide...it died in just over 3 hours.Then they put an E Tec engine in a sealed box and ran it until the carbon monoxide killed it.It ran for more than 3 DAYS !! :eek: :cool:
 
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phatmanmike

Captain
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Oct 24, 2003
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Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

and what does this mean... i think im not getting ya...?
 
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kd6nem

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

What are we missing here? There must be more to this story I'm not getting. They have an engine that doesn't need oxygen to be able to run? I want one of those! No engine runs without oxygen. What makes it run is the oxygen combining with the gasoline to produce combustion. When oxygen is gone the motor dies. Simple as that. True some of the oxygen finds its way into CO2, a tiny bit of CO (monoxide) and much leaves in the water vapor produced, if I remember correctly. CO is not what will make it not run- it is the lack of O2. So there has to be more to it than simply running it in a big box! What is the rest of the story??? I don't at all doubt ETec is a great motor capable of wonderful things, but I am certain it won't run without air!
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

Carbon Monoxide (CO) is a byproduct of incomplete combustion. <br /><br />Emissions can be tricky. As one byproduct goes down, others can go up.<br /><br />The test is a valid one in that the CO emission is quite low. I would suspect that the Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) is quite high. Not a bad thing, just different.
 
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Paul Moir

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Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

I don't know about the NOx emisions. On two strokes they tend to be _very_ low due to incomplete exhaust scavaging. On four stroke engines the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) system is put on there exclusively to reduce NOx emissions.<br />It's the one odd area where 2-strokes are always going to beat 4-strokes on emissions.<br />As much as I like Johnny/Evinrudes, I've got to say that E-TEC test seems kind of contrieved.
 
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NOSLEEP

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Oct 30, 2002
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Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

I dont know anything about running an e-tech in <br />a box. But I can say this is the most impressive<br />outboard motor I have ever used. <br />Out for my first run I was extremely impressed by its quiet operation, flawless idle, unbelievable<br />fuel economy and Fast like a speeding bullet <br />right out of the box. Just like the brochure said<br />And thats at 5000 feet!
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

The test may be contrived-true. That's how marketing works.<br /><br />However, CO is a serious issue on boats. It is heavier than air an can cause problems. This weekend, a section of Lake Havasu was closed due to an overabundance of CO in one area. It is suspected that the CO build up contributed to one drowning.
 
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kd6nem

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Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

I wouldn't expect the oxides to necessarily be too high for the Etec. Isn't this mostly proportional to compression ratio? Is timing advance a factor in oxides of nitrogen?<br /><br />I'd really like to hear how this "test" was set up. Yes, I'm quite skeptical, though I believe it is a fine albeit highly complex motor. Low CO is a good thing indeed, but this test won't seem very credible until I hear a bunch of details.
 
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Forktail

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Feb 11, 2002
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Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

Hmmm. So the 2-stroke ran 96% longer before the CO killed it? That really doesn't make sense, and before I bite, I'd like someone to explain what makes this possible. <br /><br />Because I don't know any outboard that can run "in a box" for three days. There simply wouldn't be enough oxygen...unless the box was huge. And like someone said above, CO can't kill an outboard, the lack of oxygen can. Plus a 2-stroke has a combustion cycle twice as often as a 4-stroke. And CO is a by-product of fuel combustion, so the 2-stroke would either have to have 96% cleaner combustion (which it doesn't), or be 96% more fuel efficient (which it isn't).<br /><br />Besides, as far as I know, all the new 4-strokes meet emission requirements, so I'm not sure of what importance this CO test would be. It sounds like a very unofficial test of some kind...certainly apples to oranges somewhere along the way. I hope Bombardier isn't resorting to these types of desperate gimmicks to sell their outboards. Hopefully Bombardier is thinking outside the box!<br /><br />If this is truly a "fact" as zzzz says it is, then I'd like to see a reference and some data to go with that "fact". Until then..... :confused: :rolleyes:
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

Forktail,<br /><br />You bring up an excellent question. I'm not sure that CO will, or will not, kill an engine. Don't know. My gut says it should.<br /><br />Anyway, as far as meeting emissions, that was NO stroke of genious. Just about anything was cleaner than a non catalyzed 2-stroke. <br /><br />If you compare the emissions of a 4-stroke outboard to a modern automobile, the outboard is still a smokestack. <br /><br />Many of the new four strokes are nothing more than a car engine turned upright without the aid of a catalyrtic converter or the ability to operate at efficient temperatures of over 200 degrees.
 
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bundy

Seaman
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Messages
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Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

I can just see my dealer's face when I ask him which one of his outboards runs the longest in a box!
 
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Terry H

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1,862
Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

If I'm ever 3 days out to sea and a box lands on my motor and tries to smother it, I hope I have an E-Tec... :)
 
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Forktail

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Messages
977
Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

DJ, CO and O2 can exist together and will burn together as long as the O2 is present. The only way I can see CO killing an outboard is if the O2 is no longer present. Thus I can't figure out why the E-TEC 2-stroke, which combusts fuel and O2 twice as often as a 4-stroke, and is about equal in fuel consumption, could produce 96% less CO. I'm sure there's more to the story, and without a reference to the "facts", I'm going to take it all with a huge grain of salt.<br /><br />BTW, I don't know of many 4-stroke outboards that are car engines turned upside down. A couple Honda's might come close, but most only resemble automobiles in the sense that they are 4-strokes. :)
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

Forktail,<br /><br />Point taken. I think you may "assuming" that the E-tec uses the O2 at twice the rate of a four stroke. Not necessarily true. The amount of O2 combusted would be a function of RPM, displacement, etc. A 2 cylinder 2 stroke of 50 cid at 500 rpm should use the same amount of air as a four stroke 100 cid at 500 rpm.<br /><br />We simply do not have enough data to make a judgement about anything.<br /><br />It is interesting though that they chose to look at CO. As I mentioned before, it has become a HUGE issue on some western lakes. Particularly on those that houseboats are rented.
 
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DI Doc

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Aug 1, 2004
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Re: Interesting Evinrude E Tec fact

I don't know about the box test, but there are several good SAE papers (peer reviewed engineering papers) available the clearly show the advanced technology being developed at BRP, including extremely low CO emissions. The papers are (You can get them at SAE.org):<br /><br />"Optimization of the E-TEC Combustion System for Direct-Injected Two-Stroke Engines Toward 3-Star Emissions"<br /><br />"A Method to Determine Total PM Emissions from Marine Outboard Engines"<br /><br />"Modeling of Scavenging and Plugging in a Twin-Cylinder Two-Stroke Engine using CFD"<br /><br />"Modeling of Air-Fuel Mixing in a Two-Stroke Direct Injection Engine"<br /><br /><br />This year we will be publishing (available September 27):<br /><br />"Predicting and Optimizing Two-Stroke Engine Performance Using Multidimensional CFD"<br /><br />"FC-W An Oil Standard for Four-Stroke Cycle Engines"<br /><br />"The Effect of Fuel Spray Momentum on Performance and Emissions of Direct-Injected Two-Stroke Engines"<br /><br />"Carbon Monoxide Emissions from Marine Outboard Engines"<br /><br />"Development of Multi-Fuel Spark Ignition Engine"<br /><br /><br />Cheers,<br />DI Doc
 
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