Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

[Jacques321]

Well here are the current numbers:<br />** Bear in mind this is a little early and based on very few votes.<br /><br />This was the question.<br /><br />If you were going to buy a OB next spring which type and make would you buy ?:<br /><br />4 Stroke..........................44.6%<br /><br />2 Stroke (Carb or EFI)............36.2%<br /><br />2 Stroke DFI......................19.2%<br /><br />Preferred Brand:<br /><br />Yamaha............................26.2%<br /><br />Mercury...........................23.8%<br /><br />Evinrude..........................21.2%<br /><br />Suzuki............................14.3%<br /><br />Johnson...........................14.3%<br /><br />For those who haven't voted yet (see my earlier post) please do, so we can firm up the data and consider it more reliable.<br />Thanks

 

[Forktail]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Good work 321. I guess I better go vote.... <br /><br />Another interesting survey would be how many 2-stroke owners now run 4-strokes and if they would switch back to 2-strokes, and how many 4-stroke owners who now run 2-strokes would switch back to 4-strokes.<br /><br />This would give an idea as to where the market is going, and if those runnning 2-strokes have ever used a 4-stroke, and if those with 4-strokes have ever used a 2-stroke.

 

[JB]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Interesting question, Forktail.<br /><br />I used 2 strokes for 50 years or so and now have 2 4 strokes. I love them both. <br /><br />There may be some applications where weight made enough difference in a small engine that I would prefer a 2 stroke, but I am sold on 4 strokes for my applications and priorities. I am strictly a fisherman and cruiser, so I don't care about the last few mph or seconds to 30mph.<br /><br />I am sure that different priorities would call for different preferences.

 

[Jacques321]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

That's good forktail. Start a thread.<br /><br />But the market will tend to go where the legislation regarding our environment and pollution points to. OB manufacturers are moving quickly in that direction.<br /><br />Right now consumers have the choice to stay with the old technology, and we know that is temporary. Eventually the choice will simply come down to two, DFI or 4 stroke.<br /><br />Those that would still buy a 2 stroke Carb would have to seriously consider the re-sale value of their expensive purchase(that was one among many good reasons why I bought a 4 stroke).

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

321- are waterways really going to prohibit the use of 2 strokes in the future? i know production of the engines will cease, but i didn't think they could prohibit use. i remember when leaded fuel went away, they didn't keep my dad from driving his toyota on the highway. i'd hate to be banned from anywhere...

 

[93evinrude]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Interesting to see that OMC has the brand lead in your survey with 35.5% so far.It looks like they have done a good job of coming back to market and convincing baoters that their newest products are still some of the best.

 

[Jacques321]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Good point Matt25 I've edited my post on that.<br />I don't think they'll be banning anyone from the waterways in the distant future, but manufacturers will simply phase out the building of the traditional carbed 2-stroke.<br /><br />Consider this:<br /><br />These quotes were taken from the <br />San Jose Mercury News<br />12 December 1998:<br />Currently, a personal watercraft operated for seven hours produces more smog-forming emissions than a 1998 passenger car driven for 100,000 miles,'' an Air Resources Board staff analysis said.<br /><br />Personal watercraft spew 100 tons or more of pollutants into California's air on a summer day, according to the staff. The most polluting of the craft, those powered by two-stroke engines, also pour unburned gasoline into the water.<br /><br />Pretty scary huh!

 

[Jacques321]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

I agree Evinrude33, I think Bombardier will bring the Johnson/Evinrude brand back to a strong position in the OB market.<br /><br />It's just a question of time.

 

[ob]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Let me give a piece of alarming news that most people are not aware of as it pertains to pollution of oceans and waterways.I served in the US Navy for six years.My entire six years was was served aboard ship in engineering dept.Auxiliary engine room to be specific.I was second class engineman and one of my duties was fuel and water king.It was common practice to pump bilges(laden with diesel and lube oil waste)overboard when out to sea past the contiguous zone.(150 miles)Frequently in rough seas it was common for our vessel to take on exterme amounts of sea water through abovedeck tank vents and overflow scuppers.By order of C.O. I've pumped as much as 8000 gallons of JP5 and no.2 distillate overboard to vacate tanks of sea water that could not be stripped fast enough to be of immediate use in propullsion engines.There simply was no other place to pump it ,as many times our fo/sw ballast tanks were full to maintain posture of vessel.At that time we didn't even have centrifugal purifiers to remove solids and water from fuel oil,but rather coelesser filter vessels with water dump floats that discharged to bilges that were in turn pumped overboard.I don't know what sort of environmental impact that this procedure had on the ocean ecology as at the time we were led to believe that this discharge would simply break up and be overcome by the sheer volume of ocean water.I'm sure the ship I served aboard was not unique to this procedure and would like to think that it is not still common practice.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

OB,<br />but I think it would take this entire forum to<br />dump that much in a year. this question really <br />comes down to serviceability (sp).<br />who's gonna service the motor?<br />what motor do they have the most exp./parts for?<br />do they have the required electronic testing eqpmt<br />for the motor.<br />in other words:<br />if I get stuck in bumfu(k with a carbed 2 stroke,<br />I can probably find a wrench to fix her. can't<br />say the same with a 4 stroke fuel injected which<br />requires a laptop to diagnose.<br />just my .02<br />M.Y.

 

[sloopy]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

it would be nice if there was a way to bypass all of the computer controlled suff in an emergancy.

 

[Jacques321]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

The computer contolled stuff will lessen the chances of you getting into an emergency in the first place.<br /><br />That is.. unless you're running an Optimax maybe..Ha ha

 

[Forktail]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

321, I'm not convinced that the current 4-stroke market is a result of being emissions driven. There's no doubt that legislation has forced cleaner running outboards, and obviously manufacturers and consumers have taken that into consideration. But current 2-stroke technology also meets the emission push, and the big consumer glut on these 2-strokes just doesn't seem to be there (yet).<br /><br />Up here in Alaska outboard owners could care less about emissions. There are no requirements. Yet the 4-stroke market continues to totally dominate the 2-stroke market.<br /><br />I tend to believe that consumers are buying the 4-strokes, not because of emissions, but because that is what they want. Who knows.<br /><br />Another point I might add is to be careful about what you read in the California newspapers about pollution. If I remember, all the figures spouted in the Yellowstone snowmobile ban were proven wrong.....way wrong.

 

[slow_boat]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Someone has posted on this forum that 2 cycle engines are already prohibited in some California waterways from which potable water is derived. I am not sure this is true, but someone from Cal stated as much.

 

[sloopy]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

putboards don't pollute that much, Including the 1980 and up carbed ones. the "IN_VI_RO_"MENTLE" people wanted something to keep out, when they went around asking people, many people dont have boats and they see the form and check off outboards! as someone said another time on this board, the people voting outboard 2strokes out have little clue what they are, less then 10% of people in the USA own a boat, and they don;t want to loose there cars, there airconditions, when they check that POTition they check 2 stroke outboards becuase they have little clue what they are or the whole story behind them. ANother thing that I hate is when people just find an old siezed up outboard and just Quickly fix, not doing whats needed! 2stroke outboards that are not maintained corectly pollute 10 times as much as they were if they are maintained! also some people and there are people on this board that do this is when they adjust carbs and the mix rates they just make it rich becuase it sounds better that way!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!<br /><br />Also when people put to much oil into engines it goes out and polutes the water, also when you use too little oil it makes the engine less concervitive and it waste stuff! <br /><br />Also I think people should be buying Oil mixers so you have the perfect amount of oil in at all times (50:1)<br /><br />If you want a very non polluting 2 stroke carbed outboard, I would make your own oil injection systom, that gives you at least 100:1 at idle and 25 to 1 at full throttle, they are wasy to make with an old chainsaw carbarator to use as the mixing thing reall fun too!

 

[radsrh]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

321 I have a question for you, with your current setup a 90hp merc carb 4 stroke do you think you could pull a skier up. I have a 1987 Bayliner at 1220lbs and I am torn between the merc 4 stroke and Rude 2 stroke 90hp. My concern it the merc will not have the hole shot to pull up a skier.

 

[Ryans Toy]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Depends on prop,and weight of skier also,more power,less drag to skier.

 

[Jacques321]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

radshr,<br /><br />Yes I can dude with relative ease. The choice of prop will definately improve the initial pull though.<br /><br />The fact that my vengeance prop is pitched at 16 gives me the grunt I need to yank someone out of the water, I was pleased when I bought the vengeance, it not only gave me better hole shot but I gained 3 MPH when I switched from a 21 Aluminum to a 16 SS. The vengeance is the SS prop that Merc specifically recommends for that engine.<br /><br />As far as the two choices you mention in 4 cylinders Rude or Merc. I think the Merc4 90 can stand up to the Rude 2DFI 90 and may even outperform it. Besides they practically weigh the same, The Rude 90 is only 10 lbs. lighter.<br />But if you were talking 6 cylinders I would say Rude all the way.

 

[radsrh]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Thank you very much for your input, I wanted to go with the merc4 but had some concerns over the hole shot. The long standing post of the 50 merc with bog and nothing that could be done with it made me worry. Do you have any experance with the high 5 prop, this is the prop I was thinking about with this motor. Do you know the dry weight of your boat, to use as a comp to the weight of my bayliner. One last thing, I hear that the small size of the jets in the carbs can cause problems with spring start-up after storage have you had any problems with that.<br /><br />Thank you<br />Steve

 

[Jacques321]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Hi,<br /><br />My boat is a little lighter than yours at 960 lbs. I've never had any experience with the High 5, but I will assume it would be even better for hole shot, smoother at WOT, but you will lose some top end speed.<br /><br />There's always a trade-off.<br /><br />Never had problems with the jet size, but did have the carburetors and idle adjusted in the first season. <br />Have you considered a 115 for your boat, or is that out of your price range?