Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

[ShawnQ]

1995 88SPL Evinrude

I've been having a problem with my engine after idling/low speed cruising for a bit. It seems to 'load up', running a little rough. It almost seemed as if it wasn't getting enough fuel at idle, or if the plugs were getting fouled up and firing incorrectly.

I pulled the carbs off, cleaned and 'rebuilt' them...so they are as good as new. They were pretty clean as it was, should've been fine without pulling them off but it didn't hurt anything either.

I reinstalled the carbs yesterday and cranked it up. On the hose, the engine will run good for a few minutes. I usually set it at a high idle or so, 12-1500 RPMS. After it warmed up, it started loading and missing again, dropping the RPM's down into the 700 range and trying to die. I guess the carbs weren't the problem.

So, I waited until dark, and started it back up. Let it warm up, and had the same problem. With the cowling off, and all lights off around me, I could see arcing around the top right cylinder's spark plug (cyl 2?). The spark was coming from the brass 'nut' area of the spark plug, and jumping towards the spark plug boot. There was also some arcing in the coil area near wear the spark plug wire plugs into the coil.

I also noticed the other three spark plugs would almost 'glow' blue when they were hitting...but I assumed I was just seeing the spark through the ceramic...basically the ceramic would very faintly light up...but now sparking on the outside.

Does this sound like a coil, plug, or plug wire problem?

What is the best method to go about testing this?

Plug wires are only about 2 yrs old, coils are original, and plugs were new midway through last season.

Thanks
Shawn

(PS: No manual yet...waiting on it, eager to get this thing on the water).

 

[ezeke]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

Make sure that the spark plug is not cracked - really easy to happen if dropped, or seated with a deep socket.

Check the grounding strap to the cylinder head.

Don't use automotive spark plug wires.

BTW Cylinders are numbered from top to bottom. Top is #1.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

Make sure that the spark plug is not cracked - really easy to happen if dropped, or seated with a deep socket.

Check the grounding strap to the cylinder head.

Don't use automotive spark plug wires.

BTW Cylinders are numbered from top to bottom. Top is #1.

Cylinder # 3 would be the culprit then..

What are the difference between auto and marine plug wires? Less corrosion resistant in the auto applications? I used marine wires when I replaced them.

What's the best way to test the coil and/or the wire?

I'll check the plug. It was installed using the plug wrench that came with the engine. I didn't drop it and I don't think the wrench would crack it...but not sure.

How would a deep socket crack it?

Thanks
Shawn

 

[mikesea]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

hey shawn,you should not see arching,you could have a bad plug,that would certainly cause you trouble,the numbering of your cylinders would be looking at the eng from the rear,the right or starboard would have number 1 at top 3 at bottom,portside ,2 top 4 bottom,it's possible if you are running the vro system(not mixing oil to gas) your pump might be starting to wear and overoiling causing your lugs to foul easier/.does it seem to smoke more than usual,if so that could be a possibility,maybe the plugs are getting old,running on hose doesnt put enough load to get a good feel to how the eng.is running.you might have a bit of a sync and link prob. if the eng seems to burp an fart the carbs might be out of sync,that is usually noticeable at idle

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

Mike,

There was definitely arching on the top right cylinder, Cyl #1.

I attempted to pull the plug wire off while running to see if it was firing on all 4, and got a good jolt :^ That's what made me decide to try it at night so that I could see the arching...sure enough, it is arching bad.

I went out there during lunch and pulled all 4 plugs. The one that was arching was definitely wetter than the others, but not 'clogged' by any means. It was also free of cracks...so no obvious damage unless it is something internal. I did a compression check while I was at it (it was cold, but still better than nothing). It read 112-115 on all 4 cylinders....so I am good there.

The link and sync on the carbs is correct (or should be, I'll have to double check). I didn't have to change anything when I pulled them off.

The engine runs just fine until this plug starts arching. Once the plug starts arching, I began to get the lugging and loaded up engine. It smokes a lot when this is happening, but otherwise, it doesn't seem to smoke abnormally.

I am going to buy a new set of plugs after work. First though, I am going to move this 'suspect' spark plug to another cylinder and see if it does the same thing on another cylinder. If so, I'll know it's the plug. If not, it is something else.

Thanks
Shawn

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

UPDATE:

Changed the 'suspect' spark plug to cylinder #2. Fired it up, and AFTER IT WARMED UP, this plug began to arch again. SO, I thought I found my problem...a bad plug?

So, I installed the all new spark plugs, gapped at .040 per research I've done. They are the champion plugs, but I forget the model #. Anywho, put them in, fired it up...engine still warm, and it still ran rough...running like it was not firing like it should!

Unfortunately, I was wrong...the plug(s) wasn't/werent my problem.

It seems that the engine doesn't run poorly until after it has warmed up.

I'm not familiar with the power pack on these engines, do they change anything after the engine has reached operating temp?

Would the thermostats affect the way the engine ran after it warmed?

I'm thinking it is something electric...but I'm not sure. I guess I need to know how to check the coils, check the plug wires, and check the power pack. Any recommendations?

Thanks
Shawn

 

[ob]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

If you originally saw arching of the plug wires then you definately have a problem with one or more plug leads between the coil/s and plugs.Likely the boot ends that stab on the plug.You could try adding some artificial heat (hair drier) to the power pack/s and coils before engine warms and see if the missing problem occurs before the engine warms.This can help pinpoint a warm powerpack/coil failure.And they do fail as they contain semi-conductors and such that break down over time.My money is on a failed plug lead or leads.

BTW mikesea, the SPL model outboards were not originally equipped with vro.

 

[fireman57]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

You didn't say if you still have the arcing or not after changing plugs. If you do, I'm with ob on the bad plug wire or boot.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

You didn't say if you still have the arcing or not after changing plugs. If you do, I'm with ob on the bad plug wire or boot.

I apologize. I DO still have arching after replacing the plugs.

I am getting arching between the plug wires and the bendable wire holder that is attached to the engine (minimal).

I am getting arching from the 'nut' on the spark plug, on the outside, to the boot.

I am getting arching from the coils to areas around the coils.

I assume the arching from the cools could be due to the high resistance the plug wires are causing, which causes the coil to find any source of ground it can so it jumps to the nearest metal.

I wish I knew where to find plug wires in town...I may have to order them.

Is there any way to TEST a plug wire?

SQ

 

[ezeke]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

Set your Champion QL77JC4 spark plugs at .03.

Get your wires already made up. Try your nearest dealer, They probably have them in stock. Just check the third circle and enter your zip code here:

"http://dealerlocator.evinrude.com/EN/?Rnd=1172157085156"

Copy this link to your browser without the quotation marks:

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

Set your Champion QL77JC4 spark plugs at .03.

Get your wires already made up. Try your nearest dealer, They probably have them in stock. Just check the third circle and enter your zip code here:

http://dealerlocator.evinrude.com/EN/?Rnd=1172157085156

That is the champion plugs I have, but I was told that with the amount of idling I do, a .040 gap would be better. I also read this several places online - is that not correct? I can re-gap them...no prob.

Thanks for the link, I'll check here in town.

There isn't a way to check the condition of old wires though, huh? Could you check resistance?

 

[ezeke]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

.04 is great if you are not having the problem that you are experiencing. You are making it more difficult to contain all that power by making the gap larger than it needs to be.

Regardless of that, the recommended setting is still .03.

Copy this link to your browser without the quotation marks:

"http://www.boatsetup.com/SparkPlugChart.pdf"

think that when you have a good set of wires, the problem will go away and you could then reset to .04.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

Good point.

I'll reset them at .03 and see if I can find a set of plug wires.

I'll try to find them at lunch and install them this evening. Look for an update later.

Any other ideas will be appreciated. I'm about ready to sell this 88SPL and upgrade to a 150hp ETEC! I hate dealing with someone else's problems...but it would be a LOT cheaper to keep this then to buy that ETEC! lol

SQ

 

[fireman57]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

Is your ground wire(s) clean? Did you physically remove them and clean them?

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

I don't have my manual yet, so I'm not sure where ALL of the ground wires are located.

I removed and cleaned the ones I could find.

Any diagram or a list of where and how many there are on these engines? There shouldn't be too many. I don't recall exactly how many I cleaned.

I found the spark plug wires, almost $45 for the whole set - OUCH! They aren't even pre-assembled. They come with a coil spring terminal that just sticks into the side of the wire. This seems lame...does it work, or is there a better wire out there? The part # on them is 582365

Thanks
Shawn

 

[mikesea]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

At this point definatly get a GOOD set of wires.You should not be arching .Be sure the connections are clean too,meaning no rust stains ,etc,on the coil ends or plug ends,spark can travel down rust.why it runs worse when warm could be a different problem,but for now get the spark leak fixed,the bigger the load,the more it will leak spark

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

I bought the OMC/Bombardier wires. Like I said though, I'm a little uneasy about the way the boot connects to the wire. There is a spring terminal that just 'sticks' into the wire itself, and down into the metal part of the wire. Then you slide the boot over the spring terminal AND the wire and I guess it holds it in?

It seems like this stuff should be crimped/soldered...but I guess not.

Are there better wires out there? I figured OMC 'original' should be sufficient

Thanks
Shawn

 

[fireman57]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

When you stick the new wires into your coils make sure that you "screw" them in. You might want to get a piece of wire and measure how deep the hole is on your coil so you know you have them in far enough. Mark your new plug wire to that depth. The boots will hold the spiral wire in as long as you have it centered in the core of the wire. It is tough to get the boot over it though. I have found that putting the boot in hot tap water for a while makes it easier to do.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

It says in the assembly instructions to use iso alcohol to allow the boot to slide over the wire easier, or acetone. I'll stay away from the acetone but the alcohol may work.

I'll check the depth of the boot vs. the coil and make sure I've got them all the way on.

FOR THE RECORD:

The arching does not start until the engine warms up. When I first start the engine after sitting for a while, it runs fine.

I know my cars have an 'open' and 'closed loop' mode. When they are cold, they run in open loop. They bypass a lot of the emissions and sensors until the o2 sensor warms up enough to get a good reading. At that point, they turn to closed loop and the sensors start working.

I know this outboard is not nearly as high tech as my mustang's EFI system, but it acts similar. It runs fine cold...and then warms up and starts arching/bogging/loading up.

I don't think plug wires are the issue, but I'll replace them anyway as it can't hurt. I'll post up the results this evening.

Thanks
SQ

 

[ezeke]

Re: Intermittent Ignition/Spark problem - coil? Plug Wires?

My error, I thought the dealers would have them booted and ready to go. Try marineparts.com at 1 941 351-4975. I know that they have them because I have bought them and they are reasonably priced.

A good cycle shop have good solid core wires, too.