IO vs Direct Drive

[rokrau]

Hello All,
I've been reading here for a while now and I am curious whether to get a direct or V drive or an IO for my first boat.

I 'd like to get a used boat for skiing, cruising and tubing. I am considering to spend up to 10k total on the first boating season. Considering storage, insurance, registration, gas and maintenance i believe that puts me in the range of anywhere between 6-8k for the actual boat purchase.

I am monitoring Bay Area CL for a while and come across Sea-Rays, Bayliners (96-00) but also the occasional Malibu Supra or Tige usually early 90s that I might consider.

I guess my main question is: Are IOs more complicated, more expensive to maintain than direct drives? Why are direct drives more expensive? Is a newer IO preferable to an older direct drive?

Thanks for all answers.

Best regards,

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

they are to totally different species. they handle totally different. the inboard. both are good sport boats. they both require maintenance, in a little different ways. the i/o is easier to beach, as the outdrive can be tilted.

Buying a boat

1st you need to decide what you want to use it for, fishing, cruising, or water sports.

2nd how many people adults, children you want on board of the average outing.

3rd outboard, inboard-outboard, or inboard power plant.

4th Budget, what you want to pay, and what you are willing to pay, when you find
Exactly what you want.

You can hire a marine surveyor, to inspect the boat, or you can do it yourself.

You are mainly looking for soft spots in the deck, transom, cracks, all signs of a rotten, under frame. You walk all over the deck, that a mallot, or hammer with wooden handle, using handle, tap all over the transom, a shape rap is good solid base, a thud, is questionable base.

The motor should be clean, no spots where the paint is discolored, or pealing from heat, having run hot. (This part for outboard motors Compression should be atleast 100psi, and within 10% of each other,)
Spark on all cylinders, good pee stream, check lower unit for water in oil.

The overall condition of the boat will tell you a lot, as to how it has been maintained.
boat motor combo, A 30 year old may be in better condition, than a 3 year old.

 

[salty87]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

there probably aren't too many v drives from the early 90's. they took over closer to 2000.

i have an older supra (87), never owned an i/o but my family had a few when i was a kid. just putting that out there as disclosure.

I guess my main question is: Are IOs more complicated, more expensive to maintain than direct drives? Why are direct drives more expensive? Is a newer IO preferable to an older direct drive?

yes, i/o's are more complicated and more expensive to maintain than direct drives. a direct drive inboard is about as easy as it gets. no outdrive to maintain/bellows to replace. transmissions are mostly bullet proof. running aground can be alot more expensive though.

direct drives are more expensive for a few reasons. they aren't as efficient and therefore have bigger engines to move the boat and pull skiers. it's a smaller market and they tend to hold value better than i/o's. some of the gear on a tournament inboard is sturdier than what's used for i/o's...built-in ski pylons, tracking fins on the bottom of the hull to help offset the pull of skiers, large swim platforms are standard.

last question is totally up to you. inboards are safer for water sports. you can't surf with an i/o. inboards will drink alot more gas than i/o's. inboards often weigh more which can mean a bigger tow vehicle. i/o's can usually handle choppy water a little better (similar sized boats).

 

[rokrau]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

they are to totally different species. they handle totally different. the inboard. both are good sport boats. they both require maintenance, in a little different ways. the i/o is easier to beach, as the outdrive can be tilted.

I see. Since I posted I've read some related threads on the differences in handling between IO and direct drive boats. A lot of things make sense to me now. My brother in law lets me drive is MasterCraft once in a while and it gives me a lot more trouble than the Sea-Ray I rented recently. In fact I was wondering why the Sea-Ray was so much easier to steer/handle.

Buying a boat

1st you need to decide what you want to use it for, fishing, cruising, or water sports.

2nd how many people adults, children you want on board of the average outing.

That's clear to me at this point, cruising, light watersports allthough my wife is a really good waterskier (I am still learning) and the kids are small and are maybe kneeboarding at this point.

3rd outboard, inboard-outboard, or inboard power plant.

I think I will exclude the outboard option, IO vs inboard/direct drive. I was beginning to read here and got worried about maintenance of IOs.

4th Budget, what you want to pay, and what you are willing to pay, when you find
Exactly what you want.

I have a budget for the first year of 10k - figured that 2-3k of that is for maintenance, storage, insurance, gas etc.. If I fall in love with something I sometimes go a bit over my budget but I make myself sleep one night over big decisions.

You can hire a marine surveyor, to inspect the boat, or you can do it yourself.

I think that's what I am going to do, i.e. hire someone to have a look at the boat. Just go to find the right shop/surveyorto do this. I take it surveyors will also check engines and give some sort of guarantee?

The overall condition of the boat will tell you a lot, as to how it has been maintained.
boat motor combo, A 30 year old may be in better condition, than a 3 year old.

Tashasdaddy, Thanks very much - your posts are extremely helpful.

Roland

 

[rokrau]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

last question is totally up to you. inboards are safer for water sports. you can't surf with an i/o. inboards will drink alot more gas than i/o's. inboards often weigh more which can mean a bigger tow vehicle. i/o's can usually handle choppy water a little better (similar sized boats).

Salty87, thanks that's the information I was looking for. I admit I start to lean a bit towards an IO again

 

[QC]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

Where you gonna run her? The right I/O combo will definitely handle rough water better. The wrong I/O combo could be just as rough riding as most Comp skiboats (Tournament Boat). Direct drives you are looking at are all basically Comp ski boats. They are designed to make a small wake, so the passengers take the beating not the skier . . .

You also noted thatthe Sea RAy was easier for you. I/Os are basically a bigger rudder with the propeller attached so they have directional thrust too. An I/O will always cost more to maintain if they are both maintained properly . . . Shallow water favors the I/O, but both can get really expensive if you hit stuff. Direct drives can sink if you hit hard enough to yank the prop shaft out. Many Comp boats have very low freeboard (side height above waterline) and can be wet. Same with some I/Os but there are many more hull design choices.

BTW, welcome aboard!!

 

[steelespike]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

I just have to mention an Outboard again.IMO they are most universal.Most flexible application able to be easily adapted or changed for best performance for a given application.Relatively light motor specifically designed for marine operation.The 2 stroke outboard has fewer moving parts and is lighter than any inboard,I/O the inboard and I/O are adaptations of automotive designs.The I/O is tail heavy can make handing and ride difficult.I/Os tend to wander at no wake speeds can have hole shot problems.
The modern 2 stroke has very low maintenance requirements compared to the I/O or inboard.

 

[QC]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

One problem we all tend to minimise with outboards is they are not as family and spouse friendly. Many I/Os, and especially v and direct drives, have that wonderfully unobstructed swimstep for lounging, jumping, swimimg, peeing etc. etc. Much of the social part of boating we do nowadays centers around the swimstep/platform. Outboards generally suck in this area . . .

I still lust after OBs, but this is something I have not figured out how to fix just yet . . .

 

[sickwilly]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

The other big difference between IOs and direct drive boats is the seating configuration. Its rare to find an IO with the main passenger seat not facing back. The larger direct drive in the V-drive configuration certainly have lots of seating capacity, but by and large many IOs are set up for seating and lounging much better in terms of general boating.

 

[rokrau]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

Where you gonna run her?

Likely NorCal lakes like Berryessa, Sacramento Delta and some smaller lakes south of the Bay Area. I am not planning to go into the Bay itself or any rougher areas.

BTW, welcome aboard!!

Thanks

Roland

 

[QC]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

By the looks of Berryessa a cruise back across the main basin in a Tournament Boat could knock your teeth out. If your PRIMARY goal was watersports, then maybe. But if you are going to cruise, I am thinking 20 ft. and 18 - 20 degrees of deadrise with an I/O. MUCH smoother ride than a Tournament Boat. BTW, I love specialty boats like Comp Ski Tournament boats, I like center consoles, I like Mod VP style OB powered tunnels, but there is a reason that I/O powered family bow riders are so popular . . .

BTW, I have been quoted here as calling I/Os an engineering disaster, and I've probably used Cluster Flip a few times too. I still think they are, but my main squeeze is I/O powered. If I was going to replace her for the Lake and River cruising we usually do I'd more than likely go I/O. No way she'd be a direct or V-drive unless I was going to spend almost 100% of my time on the actual river where it is flat most of the time . . . If I was going to go OB, it'd be a twin screw Cat with a decent size platform between them. The Mrs. would still tell me to get a life and sell her. She'd probably mean the boat, but depending how much I fought back . . . well . . . uh . . . Chicks dig sun lounges and swimsteps!

 

[salty87]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

The other big difference between IOs and direct drive boats is the seating configuration. Its rare to find an IO with the main passenger seat not facing back. The larger direct drive in the V-drive configuration certainly have lots of seating capacity, but by and large many IOs are set up for seating and lounging much better in terms of general boating.

gotta disagree with you on this one, sickwilly. the only inboard comp boats i've seen with spotter seats that don't face the rider is from 1984 or earlier. that's the whole point of the spotter's seat.

vdrives and i/o's are really close in comparison. they both have the engine on the transom which allows everyone to sit together. direct drives have the engine hump in the middle of the boat. i'm over 6' tall and prefer the direct drive layout...hate playing footsie with everyone.

 

[sickwilly]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

gotta disagree with you on this one, sickwilly. the only inboard comp boats i've seen with spotter seats that don't face the rider is from 1984 or earlier. that's the whole point of the spotter's seat.

vdrives and i/o's are really close in comparison. they both have the engine on the transom which allows everyone to sit together. direct drives have the engine hump in the middle of the boat. i'm over 6' tall and prefer the direct drive layout...hate playing footsie with everyone.

Salty, I think we are saying the same thing. The only current model I can find in a direct or V-drive that has a passenger seat that will swivel forward or rear is the malibu sunscape 23V, and I think you have to custom order it to get it to not have the wrap around seating that has the passenger facing backwards. Believe me, I have killed hours searching all the major tournament ski boats current websites -- a man has to have something to do when he's not working and not on the water!

All others have the passenger facing rear -- towards the skier. That was the point I intended to make.

Don't get me wrong, for pulling skiers I would rather be in none other than my former Malibu Skier. However, my current family would not stay on the water with me as long as they do in that boat -- and for me, time on the water is all that matters.

Some day I will have one again, which is why I watch the malibu site each and every year and dream about which one. I have to get the kids as addicted to the water sports as I was growing up, and possibly competing too.

If that were the case right now, it would be the 23 foot sunscape, custom ordered with the passenger seat on a pedestal base, versus the total wrap around having that person facing backwards all the time.

 

[salty87]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

lol, i gotcha now... we are saying nearly the same thing. you like the swivel. i like the rear-facing passenger. there's almost always a rear facing lookout when underway, unless i'm by myself.

here's an option they just don't offer anymore, or offered that much back in the 80's. my favorite thing on the boat....loveseat!!

ps new malibu would be pretty sweet

 

[rokrau]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

By the looks of Berryessa a cruise back across the main basin in a Tournament Boat could knock your teeth out.

Would a 90 Malibu F3 Euro count as such? Even though it is an Open Bow model?
If you are interested there is one offered on CL (Bay Area) currently but there are no hours mentioned...

She'd probably mean the boat, but depending how much I fought back . . . well . . . uh . . . Chicks dig sun lounges and swimsteps!

LOL
Chicks and the littler ones of my kids do like a swim platform to launch off from... I need to be looking for the family boat you are describing...and it has to be forgiving of my mishandling it.

 

[QC]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

Well that is definiteyl what I was talking about as a Tournament Boat. Very nice boat, but reread sickwilly's last post as he is alluding to the saem things I am. This is a better example and Chaparral is good boat.

Chap 2130

Not as many I/O bowriders up there. I'd think there were more on the Delta, but there are an awful lot of Comp boats (Tournament) listed there . . .

 

[rokrau]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

but reread sickwilly's last post as he is alluding to the saem things I am.

Ok, I understand. Still I am a bit confused. For the past couple of years I have done some boating with Inboards (MasterCraft, Supra) in the Ozarks (AR) and I actually assumed that boat rides are always relatively rough. Now these were boats that I can simply not afford (>>30k) so this might be not relevant.

Chap 2130

Yep, noticed that. It's been listed for a while - a bit out of my budget.

Not as many I/O bowriders up there. I'd think there were more on the Delta, but there are an awful lot of Comp boats (Tournament) listed there . . .

Depends on the week, there were actually a lot more listed in October. Maybe people winterized and wait for spring to get more money.

 

[QC]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

Yoiu need to go for some rides in different boats. Amazing what a smooth ride you get with 20 degrees of deadrise vs. 16. I had a 17 footer that was waaaaay smoother than a later 20 footer. Got that all back with my current 23 footer, the 17 and 23 were 20 degrees. Despite what many think it is the stern deadrise that makes the most difference. The operator matters a lot too . . .

Don't get me wrong, again, tournament boats are awesome, for . . . uh . . . tournaments. Some are very luxurious too, and a lot of people swear by them, but they are less efficient and even the later V-drives are rougher riding than a 20 degree I/O. Harder to dock too . . . I/Os are definitely more maintenance.

 

[flashback]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

I like having a rudder,,that way I can chunk it into neutral and still steer it..I don't have a DD, but it would be my choice,,My IO idles at 4 knots,,so getting into the slip means going in at a pretty good clip, if the engine konks out when shifting to reverse..well, you hit pretty hard...And if anyone says you can steer an IO in neutral, they're full of it..

 

[salty87]

Re: IO vs Direct Drive

For the past couple of years I have done some boating with Inboards (MasterCraft, Supra) in the Ozarks (AR) and I actually assumed that boat rides are always relatively rough. Now these were boats that I can simply not afford (>>30k) so this might be not relevant.

boat rides aren't car rides. with some practice behind the wheel, most of these boats will give you roughly the same ride. when it gets real windy and choppy, they'll all ride rough...some harder than others especially with a driver who's not used to it. a 20' boat in big chop isn't going to be fun either way. lake of the ozarks can get pretty rough.

i agree that some boat rides are in order, at least walk the docks at a marina and see which ones you like. i/o or inboard, they aren't rocket science to operate...you should see some of the clowns on the water. i wouldn't let ease-of-operation steer your decision.