smaki
Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2007
- Messages
- 17
Is ethanol fuel bad on outboards? Want to know what to watch out for. Here in Oregon last year all fuel switched to contain 10 ethanol, they call it E-10. I hear ethanol eats rubber and possibly fiberglass - some kinds more than others. I have an '89 Evinrude 150XP on an '89 Stratos Fish and Ski. Happy to report my fuel tanks are plastic and not molded fiberglass. Will the fuel these days eat up my VRO2 which includes a fuel pump? Are there rebuild kits that are ethanol resistant?
From: http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008805240354
Gas, ethanol not a good mix for boats
Marine officials say potential for explosion exists
Download a PDF of this storyBy Roy Gault ? Statesman Journal
May 24, 2008
Ethanol-blended gasoline has become a fact of life in Oregon, and it is about to become a pain in the neck for boaters.
Advertisement
"Ethanol and boats is not a good match," said boater Dave White of Gates. "Ethanol ... destroyed some boats (on the East Coast) before they figured out what was going on."
Gasoline with 10 percent ethanol, or E-10, is being pumped into a lot of boats for the first time during this Memorial Day weekend, and marine mechanics say boaters who are unprepared aren't going to like what they're about to experience.
All gasoline sold in the Willamette Valley for automobile use now contains ethanol, and it's the same gas that most folks will use to fill their boat tanks.
House Bill 2210, passed in the 2007 session of the Oregon Legislature, mandates that the entire state convert to ethanol-blended gasoline for on-highway use by September.
"For older boats, the issue is that it'll eat any rubber or rubberized components, and if it's in a fiberglass tank, it will act like a solvent and start dissolving it," said Ashley Massey, public affairs officer for the Oregon State Marine Board.
"A lot of bigger boats, where the fuel tanks are built in, are made of fiberglass resins in the voids of the boats," White said. "And they found in New England, regrettably, that ethanol eats away at the fiberglass and gas starts to ooze into the bottom of the boat. And then, of course, they blow up."
"It took a while to understand what was happening, but people would come on their boat and smell gas and had no idea it was seeping out through the fiberglass."
A partner in a 22-foot fishing boat that exploded last year in Hawaii told investigators that he suspected it was a result of an ethanol-induced leak, although the investigation was inconclusive.
Scott Cook, public relations director for the Boat Owners Association of the United States, said the potential for explosions exists but said ethanol as the cause of one has not been confirmed.
"We have plenty of evidence of fuel tanks degrading on older vessels to the point that they can totally destroy an engine with sludge," he said.
"Usually, by the time it degrades to the point of a leak, the engine has conked out or is dead and someone has realized by that time that something is seriously going on."
He added: "Boats do explode for fuel-related problems, and if something like a fuel pump leaks fuel into a bilge and they start the engine, 'boom.' But at this point, we don't have a poster-child case."
Chuck Ford, who reviews insurance claims, identifies problems and writes about them for "Seaworthy," a magazine of the Boat Owners Association of the United States, said he knows of one boat that was about to blow up as a result of ethanol damage to a plastic screw that dissolved in a fuel filter.
"The operator was out with his family when the vapor alarm went off and he shut everything down," Ford said. "The leaking gas was hitting a fan belt that was slinging gas all around the engine compartment.
"I'm sure there would have been a boat explosion and fatalities if the vapor alarm hadn't sounded. It's the kind of thing that's more likely on older boats. On newer boats, it's much less likely."
Paul Kosel of Marc Nelson Oil Products, a Salem wholesaler, said: "I've had a lot of boaters calling, saying they're having trouble running the E-10. They're telling me things like their engines are overheating because the ethanol burns hotter.
"People are calling and saying they're burning up things like chain saws because the ethanol doesn't blend well with the oil in the gasoline, so it runs hotter. And over time, the ethanol will separate from the gasoline. If you have a gas can sitting over time, that's where you really get problems."
One of the primary problems with E-10 fuel is that it attracts water, boat mechanics say.
"All fuel tanks draw condensation to some degree, and with gasoline, you'd get a layer of water at the bottom of the tank, which was no problem because there was space there for it to accumulate," said Dave Power, owner and mechanic at Dave Power Automotive and Marine in Salem.
"But ethanol allows moisture to be mixed in with the gasoline, and it allows water to be passed more readily into the fuel system.
"So all of a sudden, you have a chemical that allows water to more readily mix with gasoline, and it gets transferred right into your boat motor."
An additional problem is that ethanol-blended gasoline is far more corrosive than ethanol-free gas.
"Most tanks are made out of aluminum, so you get corrosion in there, and now you have an agent that very nicely breaks all that up and also lets the corrosion get into the fuel system," Power said.
With all those potential headaches, what's a boater to do?
It turns out there is at least one solution and at least one other precaution that will help.
"Boats ... are not required to run ethanol-blended fuels," Massey said. "The problem is finding fuel that's not blended. We're still trying to find out if there are marinas that will be carrying nonblended fuels. It's a problem we don't have our hands around ? who's actually dispensing the non-blended fuel."
Detroit Lake boaters are among Oregon's lucky few. Kane's Marina and Detroit Lake Marina have taken on a load of nonblended "regular" gasoline and have reasonable assurances from Kosel that Marc Nelson Oil Products will be able to continue to supply it.
Kosel said that virtually all, if not all, of the gasoline coming down the Olympic pipeline from Anacortes, Wash., is blended. He said once Southern Oregon goes to E-10 gasoline, supplies of nonblended gas will be nearly nonexistent.
"I'm hoping, I'm anticipating having regular fuel available, but it's probably eventually going to be in limited quantities," Kosel said.
He said Kane's Marina and Detroit Lake Marina are the only two he supplies.
Few Willamette Valley marinas or boat shops actually pump gas, and those who do are at the mercy of their distributor.
Sheila Huguly of Carson Oil in Newport said Carson Oil supplies boat gas to two marinas on Yaquina Bay. She said South Bay Fuel Dock has unblended gasoline because it buys large quantities directly from Carson Oil in Portland.
Sawyer's Landing, meanwhile, stocks an ethanol blend that comes from on-highway gas stocks in Newport.
"I just don't know what others are doing," Kosel said. "Boats, antique cars, airplanes, tools and off-road vehicles are all exempt, and the challenge for those people is going to be to find a supply of regular."
Once again, Kosel has some good news for Salem-area residents.
"We have a tank in front of our office that we sell retail from, and it's regular gasoline that's available to the average consumer," he said. "We can fill boats, boat tanks or gas cans."
Marc Nelson Oil Products is at 1977 Claxter Road NE.
Brad Allen, owner of Allen Marine Center in Salem, says he expects virtually all boaters to burn E-10.
"Everybody is going to buy what they put in their truck or car," he said. "Unless it's performance-minded people, they aren't going to seek regular out."
For those who run E-10 gasoline, marine industry officials say a prerequisite will be to install a water separator. Power has recommended such a filter on boats for years, long before the concept of E-10 gas.
"It's a fuel filter that looks like an oil filter, and as the fuel passes through, it traps the water before it gets to the engine," Allen said.
Larry Loveberg, owner of Kane's Marina, and Callie Lunski, co-owner of Detroit Lake Marina, both send customers to Power for installation of water separators. He operates a shop at 1295 12th St. SE in Salem on weekdays and at 250 Front St. in Detroit on weekends.
Allen Marine Center does installations at 4935 Commercial St. SE. Other marine mechanics also install them.
Installation of a water separator can be simple and straightforward on some boats, and on others, it can require disassembling some engine parts to get to where the filter should go.
Power said the filter sells for $29.95, and refills ? which anyone can install ? are $8.
"There isn't a cut-and-dried answer for what it's going to cost for installation," he said.
Allen's shop charges about $40 for the filter and $40 to $75 for most installations.
Mechanics agree that ethanol fuel loses its volatility rapidly when it sits around, but there are different schools of thought on how to deal with that.
Allen has been telling customers to leave the fuel level low in tanks, so it doesn't sit around and lose its oomph and to use a fuel additive.
Power recommends keeping the tank full to cut down on condensation and says not to use agents that mix the gas and water.
Ray Braswell of Salem is experiencing what other boaters may be about to face. He owns a 14-foot boat with a 25-horsepower two-stroke outboard that has not been equipped with a water separating filter, and he's pretty sure ethanol is causing him grief.
"Two weeks ago, I took my boat up to Detroit to run it, and it kind of bucked and fought and spit and sputtered, and it finally cleared its throat and got back to its regular RPMs," Braswell said.
"So this week, I went up to Odell Lake and it was bucking, fighting and carrying on. I'd put in fresh gas and some of that stabilizer stuff that they're recommending we run with ethanol, and it bucked and fought like it was running on one cylinder.
"The next morning, it was doing the same thing, and eventually, I couldn't get it to restart, and I had to be towed into the boat ramp. I'm thinking it's a a fuel problem with this goofy ethanol."
He says he has fished on the ocean for 15 years, which made him ponder:
"What's going to happen if somebody's boat starts spitting and sputtering when they're trying to cross the bar somewhere? This can be really dangerous. On a lake, it's just an inconvenience, but when you're messing around and crossing the bar, it can cost you your life."
He said he already had $950 worth of work done on the motor before starting his boating season.
"I don't know if this is just the way it's going to be. Are we going to have to trouble- shoot and do a lot of different things to our boats on a regular basis? Will it be a different situation every time we take our boats out?
"That's kind of a drag."
rgault@StatesmanJournal.com or (503) 399-6723
From: http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008805240354
Gas, ethanol not a good mix for boats
Marine officials say potential for explosion exists
Download a PDF of this storyBy Roy Gault ? Statesman Journal
May 24, 2008
Ethanol-blended gasoline has become a fact of life in Oregon, and it is about to become a pain in the neck for boaters.
Advertisement
"Ethanol and boats is not a good match," said boater Dave White of Gates. "Ethanol ... destroyed some boats (on the East Coast) before they figured out what was going on."
Gasoline with 10 percent ethanol, or E-10, is being pumped into a lot of boats for the first time during this Memorial Day weekend, and marine mechanics say boaters who are unprepared aren't going to like what they're about to experience.
All gasoline sold in the Willamette Valley for automobile use now contains ethanol, and it's the same gas that most folks will use to fill their boat tanks.
House Bill 2210, passed in the 2007 session of the Oregon Legislature, mandates that the entire state convert to ethanol-blended gasoline for on-highway use by September.
"For older boats, the issue is that it'll eat any rubber or rubberized components, and if it's in a fiberglass tank, it will act like a solvent and start dissolving it," said Ashley Massey, public affairs officer for the Oregon State Marine Board.
"A lot of bigger boats, where the fuel tanks are built in, are made of fiberglass resins in the voids of the boats," White said. "And they found in New England, regrettably, that ethanol eats away at the fiberglass and gas starts to ooze into the bottom of the boat. And then, of course, they blow up."
"It took a while to understand what was happening, but people would come on their boat and smell gas and had no idea it was seeping out through the fiberglass."
A partner in a 22-foot fishing boat that exploded last year in Hawaii told investigators that he suspected it was a result of an ethanol-induced leak, although the investigation was inconclusive.
Scott Cook, public relations director for the Boat Owners Association of the United States, said the potential for explosions exists but said ethanol as the cause of one has not been confirmed.
"We have plenty of evidence of fuel tanks degrading on older vessels to the point that they can totally destroy an engine with sludge," he said.
"Usually, by the time it degrades to the point of a leak, the engine has conked out or is dead and someone has realized by that time that something is seriously going on."
He added: "Boats do explode for fuel-related problems, and if something like a fuel pump leaks fuel into a bilge and they start the engine, 'boom.' But at this point, we don't have a poster-child case."
Chuck Ford, who reviews insurance claims, identifies problems and writes about them for "Seaworthy," a magazine of the Boat Owners Association of the United States, said he knows of one boat that was about to blow up as a result of ethanol damage to a plastic screw that dissolved in a fuel filter.
"The operator was out with his family when the vapor alarm went off and he shut everything down," Ford said. "The leaking gas was hitting a fan belt that was slinging gas all around the engine compartment.
"I'm sure there would have been a boat explosion and fatalities if the vapor alarm hadn't sounded. It's the kind of thing that's more likely on older boats. On newer boats, it's much less likely."
Paul Kosel of Marc Nelson Oil Products, a Salem wholesaler, said: "I've had a lot of boaters calling, saying they're having trouble running the E-10. They're telling me things like their engines are overheating because the ethanol burns hotter.
"People are calling and saying they're burning up things like chain saws because the ethanol doesn't blend well with the oil in the gasoline, so it runs hotter. And over time, the ethanol will separate from the gasoline. If you have a gas can sitting over time, that's where you really get problems."
One of the primary problems with E-10 fuel is that it attracts water, boat mechanics say.
"All fuel tanks draw condensation to some degree, and with gasoline, you'd get a layer of water at the bottom of the tank, which was no problem because there was space there for it to accumulate," said Dave Power, owner and mechanic at Dave Power Automotive and Marine in Salem.
"But ethanol allows moisture to be mixed in with the gasoline, and it allows water to be passed more readily into the fuel system.
"So all of a sudden, you have a chemical that allows water to more readily mix with gasoline, and it gets transferred right into your boat motor."
An additional problem is that ethanol-blended gasoline is far more corrosive than ethanol-free gas.
"Most tanks are made out of aluminum, so you get corrosion in there, and now you have an agent that very nicely breaks all that up and also lets the corrosion get into the fuel system," Power said.
With all those potential headaches, what's a boater to do?
It turns out there is at least one solution and at least one other precaution that will help.
"Boats ... are not required to run ethanol-blended fuels," Massey said. "The problem is finding fuel that's not blended. We're still trying to find out if there are marinas that will be carrying nonblended fuels. It's a problem we don't have our hands around ? who's actually dispensing the non-blended fuel."
Detroit Lake boaters are among Oregon's lucky few. Kane's Marina and Detroit Lake Marina have taken on a load of nonblended "regular" gasoline and have reasonable assurances from Kosel that Marc Nelson Oil Products will be able to continue to supply it.
Kosel said that virtually all, if not all, of the gasoline coming down the Olympic pipeline from Anacortes, Wash., is blended. He said once Southern Oregon goes to E-10 gasoline, supplies of nonblended gas will be nearly nonexistent.
"I'm hoping, I'm anticipating having regular fuel available, but it's probably eventually going to be in limited quantities," Kosel said.
He said Kane's Marina and Detroit Lake Marina are the only two he supplies.
Few Willamette Valley marinas or boat shops actually pump gas, and those who do are at the mercy of their distributor.
Sheila Huguly of Carson Oil in Newport said Carson Oil supplies boat gas to two marinas on Yaquina Bay. She said South Bay Fuel Dock has unblended gasoline because it buys large quantities directly from Carson Oil in Portland.
Sawyer's Landing, meanwhile, stocks an ethanol blend that comes from on-highway gas stocks in Newport.
"I just don't know what others are doing," Kosel said. "Boats, antique cars, airplanes, tools and off-road vehicles are all exempt, and the challenge for those people is going to be to find a supply of regular."
Once again, Kosel has some good news for Salem-area residents.
"We have a tank in front of our office that we sell retail from, and it's regular gasoline that's available to the average consumer," he said. "We can fill boats, boat tanks or gas cans."
Marc Nelson Oil Products is at 1977 Claxter Road NE.
Brad Allen, owner of Allen Marine Center in Salem, says he expects virtually all boaters to burn E-10.
"Everybody is going to buy what they put in their truck or car," he said. "Unless it's performance-minded people, they aren't going to seek regular out."
For those who run E-10 gasoline, marine industry officials say a prerequisite will be to install a water separator. Power has recommended such a filter on boats for years, long before the concept of E-10 gas.
"It's a fuel filter that looks like an oil filter, and as the fuel passes through, it traps the water before it gets to the engine," Allen said.
Larry Loveberg, owner of Kane's Marina, and Callie Lunski, co-owner of Detroit Lake Marina, both send customers to Power for installation of water separators. He operates a shop at 1295 12th St. SE in Salem on weekdays and at 250 Front St. in Detroit on weekends.
Allen Marine Center does installations at 4935 Commercial St. SE. Other marine mechanics also install them.
Installation of a water separator can be simple and straightforward on some boats, and on others, it can require disassembling some engine parts to get to where the filter should go.
Power said the filter sells for $29.95, and refills ? which anyone can install ? are $8.
"There isn't a cut-and-dried answer for what it's going to cost for installation," he said.
Allen's shop charges about $40 for the filter and $40 to $75 for most installations.
Mechanics agree that ethanol fuel loses its volatility rapidly when it sits around, but there are different schools of thought on how to deal with that.
Allen has been telling customers to leave the fuel level low in tanks, so it doesn't sit around and lose its oomph and to use a fuel additive.
Power recommends keeping the tank full to cut down on condensation and says not to use agents that mix the gas and water.
Ray Braswell of Salem is experiencing what other boaters may be about to face. He owns a 14-foot boat with a 25-horsepower two-stroke outboard that has not been equipped with a water separating filter, and he's pretty sure ethanol is causing him grief.
"Two weeks ago, I took my boat up to Detroit to run it, and it kind of bucked and fought and spit and sputtered, and it finally cleared its throat and got back to its regular RPMs," Braswell said.
"So this week, I went up to Odell Lake and it was bucking, fighting and carrying on. I'd put in fresh gas and some of that stabilizer stuff that they're recommending we run with ethanol, and it bucked and fought like it was running on one cylinder.
"The next morning, it was doing the same thing, and eventually, I couldn't get it to restart, and I had to be towed into the boat ramp. I'm thinking it's a a fuel problem with this goofy ethanol."
He says he has fished on the ocean for 15 years, which made him ponder:
"What's going to happen if somebody's boat starts spitting and sputtering when they're trying to cross the bar somewhere? This can be really dangerous. On a lake, it's just an inconvenience, but when you're messing around and crossing the bar, it can cost you your life."
He said he already had $950 worth of work done on the motor before starting his boating season.
"I don't know if this is just the way it's going to be. Are we going to have to trouble- shoot and do a lot of different things to our boats on a regular basis? Will it be a different situation every time we take our boats out?
"That's kind of a drag."
rgault@StatesmanJournal.com or (503) 399-6723
