Is it spark or fuel???

mcarlito

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
133
Hello again, so I'm using my 1963 14' crestliner with a '62 johnson 60hp. People tell me this boat should be moving at a good clip. Well it's not. My two boys want to ski but I can't get the boat moving to get my 15yr old (150lbs)up on skis. I pulled the plugs this morning and plugs 1 and 3 are dry and the insulators are white, this is one side of the engine. On plugs 2 and 4 they are wet brown. The top plug #2 has a lot of carbon on it. This motor with magento has, new coil, points, plugs, condensers, rebuilt carb, new fuel filter, link and sync is good, prop is not slipping, I just put on a hydrofoil and it helps somewhat but I still think this boat should be moving better. The carb has two low idle jet adjustments, what does each do?? Is one for each side of the engine cyl. #1&2 and #2&4???<br />Thank you for the help my 15 year old son and I have been on this project since last fall and it been fun and challenging. We've both learning a lot and this site has helped both of us.<br />Mike and son Zach still digging it :D
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Mike... You say " I pulled the plugs this morning and plugs 1 and 3 are dry and the insulators are white".<br /><br />That indicates that cylinders 1 and 3 are not firing. First remove the spark plugs and check the spark which should jump a 1/4" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP!<br /><br />If this is not the case, find out why and/or let us know.<br /><br />If the above spark is okay, and assuming you have near equal compression on all cylinders (do you?), the problem would usually be due to having a fouled carburetor, in which case it will need to be removed, cleaned and rebuilt.<br /><br />That downdraft carburetor has two fixed brass high speed jets located in the bottom center portion of the float chamber. Clean them manually with a piece of solid strand wire as well as with solvent. Proper adjustments follow.<br /><br />(Carburetor Adjustments - Older V/4 Downdraft Carb)<br />(J. Reeves)<br /> <br />NOTE: The early model downdraft carburetors incorporated "Adjustable High Speed Jets". The later model downdraft carburetors used "Fixed High Speed Jets". Follow the below instructions accordingly. If you do not have adjustable high speed jets, ignore those paragraphs pertaining to same.<br /><br />Lift the center High Speed Control lever and turn it so that the point faces forward, resting on the high ridge. This will disengage the lever control gear from the individual high speed jets (slots). Have the slow speed needle valve knobs installed upside down so that they can be turned without encountering any obstruction.<br /><br />Gently seat each of the High Speed needle valves, then back each one out one (1) turn. Gently seat each of the Slow Speed needle valves, then back each one out one and one half (1-1/2) turns. NOTE... have the jam nut on the s/speed needles snug so that viberation won't have any effect on them, but loose enough so that you can turn them without a great amout of effort.<br /><br />(High Speed)<br />With a reliable person at the wheel, and one kneeling in front of the engine, start the engine (yes, it will run lousy with the above initial needle valve settings), put it into forward gear, and apply full throttle. Start with the High Speed adjustment on the left using a screwdrive that properly fits the slot.<br /><br />(High Speed Adjustments)<br />At full throttle, with the proper size screwdriver, slowly start turning one of the H/S needles in segments of 1/8 turn, waiting momentarily for the engine to respond, then repeat turning. You will reach a point where the engine will start to die out. At that point, back that needle valve out approximately 1/4 turn. Now, go to the other High Speed needle valve and repeat that procedure. At some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest high speed setting (you can now lower the throttle rpm). That will have both high speed needle valves set correctly, and at that point you can lift that center lever adjustment of that high ridge, keeping it lifted until the point is facing the engine, then lower it into its proper position. (When you turn that lever now, you're adjusting both High Speed needle valves at the same time.)<br /><br />(Slow Speed Adjustments)<br />Now, lowering the rpms of course, take the engine out of gear and set the throttle just to where the engine will stay running. Again, in segments of 1/8 turn, slowly start turning in one of the slow speed needle valves, waiting a few seconds between each turning for the engine to respond. As you turn the s/speed needles in, the rpms will increase..... and as it does, lower the rpms to where the engine will just stay running (otherwise the rpms will climb quite high). You will reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mjild backfire). At that point, back the needle valve out 1/4 turn. Repeat the process with the remaining slow speed needle. Again, at some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest setting. When finished, tighten the jam nut somewhat, then remove and reinstall the s/speed knobs correctly (right side up).
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Most of your questions have been about a 1966 engine. Is this a different engine that you're testing, now?<br /><br />As Joe pointed out, it looks like you're not getting spark on that bank of cylinders. That would be the first place I'd look, frankly. It does sound like you're running on 2 cylinders, for sure.<br /><br />Do the test Joe recommended, then get back to us.
 

mcarlito

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
133
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Thanks Joe and thanks CATransplant, you're right it is a 1966 not a '62 johnson please excuse me on that mistake. To answer Joe.<br /><br />If the above spark is okay, and assuming you have near equal compression on all cylinders (do you?), <br />(( I checked spark and it's blue and strong 1/4" jump on all four cyl., compression is good and equal, 95,90,85,85.))<br /><br /><br /> the problem would usually be due to having a fouled carburetor, in which case it will need to be removed, cleaned and rebuilt. <br /><br />(( So even though I did a rebuild on this carb and cleaned out every nok and cranie just this past winter, I still have to take it apart again and clean it, especially the high speed jets?? BTW this carb has no high speed adjustments like Joe mentioned.))<br /><br /><br />That downdraft carburetor has two fixed brass high speed jets located in the bottom center portion of the float chamber. Clean them manually with a piece of solid strand wire as well as with solvent. Proper adjustments follow.<br /><br />((Are you suggesting that after I clean the carb, I need to do a complete low idle adjustment again??))<br /><br />Observation, yesterday as I examined the spark plugs, I adjusted the gap again, (.030) according to the manual then took the boat out with my two sons. The boat planed in a matter of 4 seconds, I used my stop watch. As I increased the throddle the engine sounds like it wants to go but is being held back. It sounds rough until it planes then I have alot of power. <br /><br />One more important observation and this may be a differnt post but as we plane the entire boat leans to the left, it leans quite a bit. I have to back off the throttle to keep the boat straight. I just installed a hydrofoil which is helping the boat to plane, but is it also making the boat lean???<br /><br />Thanks again for the help this is a great site and thank you for any input on this post.<br />Mike and sons Zach and Jonathan having summer fun!!!
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Mike.... You asked "((Are you suggesting that after I clean the carb, I need to do a complete low idle adjustment again??))"<br /><br />You do dismantle the entire carburetor when you clean it? Not doing so raises the possibility that you will overlook something.<br /><br />Soooooo, the answer to that question is "Yes".
 

mcarlito

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
133
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Thanks Joe, and yes I did just that when I rebuilt the carb this past winter. Took it completely apart and used a spray cleaner and an air compressor. Thank you for the input. Do you have anything to offer on the rest of my previous post??<br /><br />Thanks again<br />Mike and Da Boys!
 

BoatBuoy

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 29, 2004
Messages
4,856
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

That leaning suggests you might be carrying a load of water under the floorboards.
 

mcarlito

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
133
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Hello Boatbuoy,<br />I have a bilge pump in the boat and haven't had to pump any water out. I have read where sometimes the styrofoam gets water logged under the floor boards but this leaning is something that just began with the installation of the hydrofoil. Any comments??<br /><br />thank you<br />Mike
 

mcarlito

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
133
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

I did a search on "listing left and turning" and read a great response to my problem. The response was from nautiJohn member # 29732 Ensign. This is what I was looking for. If anyone is experiencing the same problems, this might help you out.<br />Thanks to all and now I go and rebuild the carb again. <br />Mike and sons Zach and Jonathan still digging it.
 

mcarlito

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
133
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

I want to get back to Joe Reeves to tell him I took the carb apart and used carb cleaner, fine wire and compressed air to clean the carb. Did it last night and will try to get the boat in the water this coming Thursday. I did notice when I sprayed cleaner into the left high speed jet it seemed to be clogged at first then opened up. I tried starting the motor on land in a tub and it kicked right over. Now I want to take it out to see what it does at WOT.<br />Thank you for sharing you knowledge with me.<br />Mike and sons Zach and Jonathan still digging it!!
 

mcarlito

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
133
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Well I took the boat out, finally, and we had 12gallons of gas, Three adults, one child. We planed the boat in 6 seconds, I got my two sons up on skis and a good time was had by all. Look out summer here we come. <br />Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge, it took a long time but we have finally arrived.<br /><br />Mike and sons Zach and Jonathan really digging it!!
 

Brew2

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
427
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Congrats....been following your adventure for some time now...couldn't really help much, but I learned a lot from reading about your problems/solutions.<br /><br />Nice to see your sons involved. Some of my best memories of childhood were "helping" my dad tinker with our little boat.<br /><br />Enjoy your summer on the water!<br /><br />Brew
 

mcarlito

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
133
Re: Is it spark or fuel???

Thanks Brew for the nice words. I'm glad to hear that you learned a lot from my experiences, I couldn't have done it without this site and my manuals, I hope others feel the same way. That hands on experience is something that many kids today are missing out on, I'm just setting an example for mine. It's what I do. My oldest son now wants to build a homemade jet engine for his High School project!!! I say kudos to him. Hey does anyone know if becoming a jet mechanic these days is a good profession to get into??<br />Thanks again<br />Mike and dah boys plus one wife who says she doesn't like boating but she comes out every time we take the boat out, hmmmmm?
 
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