Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

anzomcik

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
158
Any one running a jack plate? If you installed it what differences did you see before and after. Do you feel it was worth it? Any recommendations on set back, or is the vertical lift the biggest contributor to performance increase?

Its winter, I got time to think and that gets me into trouble. I been rolling the idea around to help with some real shallow water areas I often fish.

My rig is a Ranger 681c with a 115 faststrike
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

Hi anz. Almost everyone where I live (FL) uses a jackplate of some sort. I use a fixed transom riser myself, but there are all sorts of fancy adjustable electric and hydraulic models. Bob's Machine Shop, CMC and Atlas are probably the major brands. They're very popular on all the flats skiffs we run down here, but jackplates are starting to pop up everywhere, even on freshwater/bass boats. Some folks even use them in combination with tunnel hulls, which allows you to run even skinnier. Check out microskiff.com for tons of info and threads. There are formulas posted online regarding set back, prop slip, etc....
 

bob johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
4,306
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

I have one...I bought mine for allowing me to motor in VERY shallow flats....and still get on plane....with out it, Id have to trim so much the boat would only bow rise with more throttle...thus making my problem of digging sand and mud even worse!!!

its a dream and worth every penny....although i use mine in cold weather and it is SLOW.....even with the highspeed actuator i bought

the were originally prefered by speed freaks and bass boaters to tune the extra little mph from their rigs


bob
 

gm280

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
14,605
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

Jack plates do work amazingly well. I had a bass boat that would top out at around 52-54 MPH and was a nightmare to try and drive it at that speed because is was chin-walking all over the place and in my opinion very dangerous as well. So I installed a manual jack plate and raised the O/B a little at a time to find the proper height and amazingly I got 63 MPH and smooth as silk too at that speed. No more chin-walking or dangerous boat movement as all. The reduced drag on the motor and the proper height were the key. Of course I never changed the settings after that, but it did allow me to fine tune that boat, O/B setup to be safer and more top speed IF I needed it... JMHO!
 

emdsapmgr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
11,551
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

The amount of setback (4", 6", 8") acts as a "lever" to help the engine's hp bring the bow up more. Less boat in the water=more speed. They are more effective on heavier (bass) boats like yours.
 

kfa4303

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Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

Here's are some pics of them in use on a various set ups. When combined with a tunnel hull and low water pick up on the motor you can literally run WOT in < 6''.

verado-300 with anti vent at perfedt height.jpgCMC-50012-5-INCH-verticle-extension-for-jack-plates-transoms-installed-500.jpgscooter 4.jpgboat1_zps99f7a7de.jpg
 

phillnjack2

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Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
918
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

well this subject is exactly what I am also looking into.
I have made my own jack plates (temporary) and will see what benefit if any I can get with them.

mine are setback of 5 inches and lift of around 5.5 inches, and 7 inches if I go right up to top holes etc.
I have mine set at the moment to give me a 7 inch lift, this will put my propshaft just a fraction under the lowest point on
the transom.
I will be using a semi-cleaver prop thast is supposed to be run very high as its a surface type prop.

once I find results I will let you know, but before I try these my max speed is 39.1mph on 4 metre Orkney dory with
60hp evinrude 3 cylinder.

here below is pics of what I have made, they are heavy gauge box section galvanised steel with large cut outs to take some weight away.
I would of used alluminium but steel was my only option. if these work I will get light weight ones made up from alloy.
I have put transom savers on the inside of my boat as the extra force due to leverage will be huge. (nice and big)
the extra leverage works out around 30% at just 6 inches from transom, so will put a lot more strain on the boat before it gets on plane.
once on plane the stress will be less due to less engine in the water (theory).
I am hoping for at least an extra 5mph from fitting these, if not they are coming off.

.
 

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gm280

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
14,605
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

well this subject is exactly what I am also looking into.
I have made my own jack plates (temporary) and will see what benefit if any I can get with them.

mine are setback of 5 inches and lift of around 5.5 inches, and 7 inches if I go right up to top holes etc.
I have mine set at the moment to give me a 7 inch lift, this will put my propshaft just a fraction under the lowest point on
the transom.
I will be using a semi-cleaver prop thast is supposed to be run very high as its a surface type prop.

once I find results I will let you know, but before I try these my max speed is 39.1mph on 4 metre Orkney dory with
60hp evinrude 3 cylinder.

here below is pics of what I have made, they are heavy gauge box section galvanised steel with large cut outs to take some weight away.
I would of used alluminium but steel was my only option. if these work I will get light weight ones made up from alloy.
I have put transom savers on the inside of my boat as the extra force due to leverage will be huge. (nice and big)
the extra leverage works out around 30% at just 6 inches from transom, so will put a lot more strain on the boat before it gets on plane.
once on plane the stress will be less due to less engine in the water (theory).
I am hoping for at least an extra 5mph from fitting these, if not they are coming off.

.

I have to say nice metal work there. If you can keep water flowing through the water pump circuit, have at it... Don't starve the pump or flow...
 

anzomcik

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
158
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

I had myself convinced this morning in going through with this project, but right now I am not so sure.

I would love the hydraulic jack plate, I do some shallow river fishing and picking up my motor 5 inches or so would be great for not beating my SS prop as much. But here is why the more I look at this I am not sure I want to do it

1. I cant use my cable steer system, it will not contort to the bending needed to work. So a Hydro system would be needed (money is not an issue for the project, it just redoing a system that is working fine and a PIA to redo on this boat)

2. I would need to install a water pressure gauge, again no issue except having to run junk to my dash and it using the same enclosed area of my gunnel my steering cable is and its very tight as is so the PIA factor comes in to play.

3. I hate to over load my transom by placing my 115 back another 6", I have a 9.9 sitting next to it, and 3 group 27 batteries sitting at the base of the transom. So I got a lot of weight at stern. Adding another 50lbs to the rear and spacing the motor back will make my rig sit more nose high at rest. I hate seeing water enter my splash well from just a little chop, it makes me think my boat is sinking (I know it isn't)

4. I would feel better if I could relocate my 2 trolling motor batteries to more central of the boat, but there is no spot for them, where they are at is where ranger designed them to be. So not sure on what to do with the weight and bulk of the batteries

I think the project of the pressure gauge, hydro steering, jack plate would be a lot of fun to do, running stuff from the console to the stern would suck. I think I would benefit from the jack plate, in both slow and fast speed. But I do not want to put tons of weight in the rear of the boat unless I could move some forward, but I have no clean spot for those boxes of lead and acid (they need to make a lithium ion marine battery, then I could shave the weight and do my project)

So I am stuck, I want to do it, but my better judgment says I shouldn't...

BTW, that home made looks good, I hope that works out for you
 
Last edited:

emdsapmgr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
11,551
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

You've done some good research and bring up some valid points. Water pressure gauges are always a good idea when you get into elevated running positions. Also, when you move the engine back, it is very possible that the steering cable(s) might have to be replaced with longer ones. Ultimately, you're the one that has to decide if it's worth the effort.
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

Hello again anz. Believe it, or not they make fancy tiller extensions with trim/tilt and jackplate switches built into them. That way you can have all the adjust-ability of a newschool jackplate with the simplicity and fun or a tiller. I run a tiller grab bar combo myself which is super fun, versatile and popular down here in FL. It's pretty amazing how sleek and streamline, yet high tech you can make things. I'll return with links soon......
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

microskiff.com - 1979 Duranautic 12' aluminum conversion (super simple DIY set up very similar to my own)
Home built hydraulic jackplate - YouTube (DIY similar to yours)
microskiff.com - Beavertail Micro (fancy schmancy version with all the bells and whistles. read thread for details)
Two Toned Green Tiller Caimen Yamaha 40 - YouTube (more fancyness)
Grey and White TiIler Caimen with Etec 60 - YouTube (my dream boat :p )

As you can see the possibilities are limitless......if ya got the money.
 

anzomcik

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
158
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

All of that tiller info is great, however I do not have a tiller. A lot of my concern was spelled out in reply #9. I have the budget to go through with what exactly I want, but I have concerns. I would hate to get everything put on I think I want only to hurt another aspect of my boating experience (like how the boat sits in the water, by over loading the stern)
 

bob johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
4,306
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

well this subject is exactly what I am also looking into.
I have made my own jack plates (temporary) and will see what benefit if any I can get with them.

mine are setback of 5 inches and lift of around 5.5 inches, and 7 inches if I go right up to top holes etc.
I have mine set at the moment to give me a 7 inch lift, this will put my propshaft just a fraction under the lowest point on
the transom.
I will be using a semi-cleaver prop thast is supposed to be run very high as its a surface type prop.

once I find results I will let you know, but before I try these my max speed is 39.1mph on 4 metre Orkney dory with
60hp evinrude 3 cylinder.

here below is pics of what I have made, they are heavy gauge box section galvanised steel with large cut outs to take some weight away.
I would of used alluminium but steel was my only option. if these work I will get light weight ones made up from alloy.
I have put transom savers on the inside of my boat as the extra force due to leverage will be huge. (nice and big)
the extra leverage works out around 30% at just 6 inches from transom, so will put a lot more strain on the boat before it gets on plane.
once on plane the stress will be less due to less engine in the water (theory).
I am hoping for at least an extra 5mph from fitting these, if not they are coming off.

.

you will not be able to run much speed with the set up in the picture. you will cavitate and blow out, quickly. you might be able to get 10-12 mph before you lose bite. bob
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

Yeah, the motor in the first pic is WAY too high. You want the anti-vent plate, located just above the prop, to be level or slightly higher than the keel, but not that high (1"-2" max, usually only about 1/2"). While a water pressure gauge would be nice, it's not entirely necessary either.
It may be some extra work upfront, but converting/changing the motor to a tiller may be worth looking into. You should always look for ways to remove/streamline items from your rig, rather than add to it. After all, less is more. Without a helm you not only loose a ton of weight, you will gain far more layout options and reduce the number of items that can fail by many fold. This will make your rig cheaper, easier and more reliable to operate in the long run, which is always nice. For all of the these reasons, more and more folks and manufacturers are returning to tiller set ups even on large +100hp 4-stroke motors. You'll see everyone from alligator hunters to muskie fisherman to flats guides using them. Besides, the tillers available now days are so advanced that they're practically a helm on a stick.
However, if you have to have a helm, then adding an adjustable jackplate will complicate things quite a bit. It can be done, but it's gonna cost you. Those tiller model skiffs in the links I posted are already in the $20k-$30k range adding a helm and all the rest can easily add another $5k by the time it's all said and done and it still won't help you catch any more fish :/

Mercury Outboards Big Tiller 40-60 HP ? Adelaide Shores Marine (trim/tilt, push-button start, kill switch, gear select, etc... all on a tiller)

2013 90 HP Evinrude E-Tec w/Tiller Handle (here's an Etec, jack plate, tiller, jet drive combo)

http://features.**********/boat-content/2007/01/the-outboard-expert-deep-inside-hondas-new-bf90/ (nice Honda 90hp)

http://www.copemarine.com/Page.aspx/pmId/226226/pageId/55571/view/Overview/Brochures.aspx (Northern/Yankee fishing rig)
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

Yeah, the motor in the first pic is WAY too high. You want the anti-vent plate, located just above the prop, to be level or slightly higher than the keel, but not that high (1"-2" max, usually only about 1/2"). While a water pressure gauge would be nice, it's not entirely necessary either.
It may be some extra work upfront, but converting/changing the motor to a tiller may be worth looking into. You should always look for ways to remove/streamline items from your rig, rather than add to it. After all, less is more. Without a helm you not only loose a ton of weight, you will gain far more layout options and reduce the number of items that can fail by many fold. This will make your rig cheaper, easier and more reliable to operate in the long run, which is always nice. For all of the these reasons, more and more folks and manufacturers are returning to tiller set ups even on large +100hp 4-stroke motors. You'll see everyone from alligator hunters to muskie fisherman to flats guides using them. Besides, the tillers available now days are so advanced that they're practically a helm on a stick.
However, if you have to have a helm, then adding an adjustable jackplate will complicate things quite a bit. It can be done, but it's gonna cost you. Those tiller model skiffs in the links I posted are already in the $20k-$30k range adding a helm and all the rest can easily add another $5k by the time it's all said and done and it still won't help you catch any more fish :/

Mercury Outboards Big Tiller 40-60 HP ? Adelaide Shores Marine (trim/tilt, push-button start, kill switch, gear select, etc... all on a tiller)

2013 90 HP Evinrude E-Tec w/Tiller Handle (here's an Etec, jack plate, tiller, jet drive combo)

http://features.**********/boat-content/2007/01/the-outboard-expert-deep-inside-hondas-new-bf90/ (nice Honda 90hp)

Lund Boats | 2011 Lund Aluminum 1675 Pro Guide (Northern/Yankee fishing rig)
 

phillnjack2

Ensign
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
918
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

well it seems some people do not know a surface prop works, I still don't fully understand it myself, but its very
different to how sub surface stuff works that's for sure. with the surface prop I only ever want a max of 2 blades in
the water at one time to get the best results for speed.
to say the cav plate needs to be level with the bottom of the boat is very old school and only works good with very
poorly designed old school propellers.
Now the object of the jackplate is to raise the engine a long way up, not keep it level, I could have my cav plate 2 inches above the bottom of the boat without the jackplate, that made hardly no difference at all.

Cavitation will not be a problem with the propeller I shall be using , its meant to run with the centre of the hub level
with the surface of the water !!!!
I have other props where raised up engine would cause huge cavitation and slippage, I have proved this big time.
With a omc silver streak (modern name is SRX) prop this is not the case.

Nowdays a lot of boats have jack plates on them,many have two so they can get a long way back and run very high at same time.
you have to remember that for every inch you go back, you also need to come up to just stay normal running attitude.

if you put just a setback of say 10 inches on the transom the engine would be running far too deep and never be efficient.
If you look at many of todays race boats, they use a 15 inch mid section (that is short shaft) and a jack plate on a 20 inch transom (longshaft transom).
so by using the short shaft they have already gone up 5 inches, then another 5 by using the lifting jackplate, but also gone back 6 to 10 inches.

there are hundreds if not thousands who use spacers as well as huge setbacks and lifts.
here below is a few that work very well, and they are all running a lot higher than mine.
my plates are pretty sedate compared to some that are running very good speeds with no cavitation worries.

but it really is a case of using the right prop, a normal everyday alloy prop is useless when using jackplates.
Most bass boats for example use some really exotic stainless props that cost a small fortune, they can run both high
and normal.
I tried a omc 12 3/4 x 23 pitch alloy and at just 2 inches higher than normal its rubbish and gave just 34mph at 5800rpm
with a very poor take off, the cavitation was crazy and the boat dangerous as it caused it to veer off course and hard
to get back without shutting it down quickly.
my 13x19 inch stainless sst at the same height gave 38mph with a very quick pull away and max 5800rpm.
My 13 3/4x23 stainless silver streak gave 39.1mph at just 5400rpm,it needs to run higher up to get going.

in theory the alloy should of been the quickest due to being smaller diameter, but just had no bite and too much cavitation.

check these out, and notice that one has the jack plate showing fully down and fully up, his plate sits 5 inches above
the bottom when at its lowest setting , in thise pics the rope is showing the water angle when running.
the red thing in the last pic is just a 8 inch set back used before the jackplate !!! so this guy gets about 14 inches of setback with about 10 inches of lift .
.
 

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anzomcik

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
158
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

I see the advantages you pointed out with tillers, but there is no way I will convert my console into a tiller. I like the wheel to much, and I would have to cut the top portion of my molded hull out, my console is molded into the boat itself, I am very happy with my set up.
 

phillnjack2

Ensign
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
918
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

quote
"I see the advantages you pointed out with tillers, but there is no way I will convert my console into a tiller. I like the wheel to much, and I would have to cut the top portion of my molded hull out, my console is molded into the boat itself, I am very happy with my set up. "


Plus
with a wheel you can use your knees to keep a course while holding a beer and waving to the ladies on the beach :)


.
 

jbjennings

Captain
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
3,903
Re: Jack plates, whats your feeling about them.

Phillnjack,

That's a nice looking evinrude----doesn't appear to have a scratch on it. New paint?
 
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