Job offer advise

[Aviator5]

Guys, I need some advise here.
Just received a job offer, and one of the clauses states:

" Your salary will compensate you for all hours of work as required, which may exceed the standard corporate hours from time to time according to business needs."


How can I protect myself from situation when "time to time business needs" will become a norm. I know the person whom I'll report to, and know that he likes to keep his employees working long hours with no reason sometimes.
I don't mind doing overtime, but don't want to be abused either.
Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[mxfever]

Re: Job offer advise

I would be VERY cautious with this one. I am a salaried employee. Since times are tough they have let people go and expect you to pick up the slack and have required 45 - 48 hour work weeks for over a year now. We do not get compensation My paycheck states I'm getting paid for 40 hours. In michigan salary employess are "overtime exempt" and do not have to get paid overtime. I worked a deal with my supervisor to get comp time if I work over but still I would like to get the OT pay.

 

[mxfever]

Re: Job offer advise

Oh and my employer has the attitude of "if you don't like it then leave. There are 100's that would like to have your job". Believe me I've been looking there just isn't anything out there without having to relocate.

 

[Summer Fun]

Re: Job offer advise

Is this job in Canada or the U.S ???.

 

[boatmanalso]

Re: Job offer advise

You should probably have them tell you what time to time is and what they think abusive might be. Since they are the ones paying you, it would be their opinion that counts.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Job offer advise

Guys, I need some advise here.
Just received a job offer, and one of the clauses states:

" Your salary will compensate you for all hours of work as required, which may exceed the standard corporate hours from time to time according to business needs."


How can I protect myself from situation when "time to time business needs" will become a norm. I know the person whom I'll report to, and know that he likes to keep his employees working long hours with no reason sometimes.
I don't mind doing overtime, but don't want to be abused either.
Any thoughts? Thanks.

That clause simply means "we don't pay overtime".
'How can i protect myself...?" IMO you can't. You have indicated what you KNOW to be your manager's expectations; challenging them can be a no-win situation (and usually is). Accept it, or pass on the job.

 

[skargo]

Re: Job offer advise

Tim hit it on the head. You know the deal, and need to use that info to make your decision.

 

[eavega]

Re: Job offer advise

That is a standard clause for salaried employees. If you are questioning your work environment before you even accept the job, then IMHO you are setting yourself up for a bitter, unsatisfactory experience that will end with you either leaving in frustration or getting fired. If you really don't agree with the hiring manager's expectations, then pass on the job. Either that, or take the job and fight the good fight. Once you are in with a company, there is always a way to move to another department, or under another manager.

-E

 

[Aviator5]

Re: Job offer advise

Thanks, guys.
I need to give you some more info. I have some leverage here, 'cause he is stealing me from my present employer. So I'm not desperate. And the offer is not written in stone. I can negotiate a bit. I think that I'll ask him to remove that clause from job offer and leave it open, salary by itself assumes non compensated overtime. Unless anybody can come up with some wording to put instead.
As I said, I don't mind to put some overtime, but don't won't it to became a norm.
And job is in Canada.

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Job offer advise

Thanks, guys.
I need to give you some more info. I have some leverage here, 'cause he is stealing me from my present employer. So I'm not desperate. And the offer is not written in stone. I can negotiate a bit. I think that I'll ask him to remove that clause from job offer and leave it open, salary by itself assumes non compensated overtime. Unless anybody can come up with some wording to put instead.
As I said, I don't mind to put some overtime, but don't won't it to became a norm.
And job is in Canada.

I like this idea...problem is it is already obvious that they are going to ask unpaid overtime, so even WITHOUT the clause you're in the same boat...and open to the same amount of potential "abuse."

Another option might be to either get them to specifically (in writing) cap how much "unpaid overtime" they can ask both over a given total year and over the course of say each week or month.
For example, "we cannot ask for more than an extra 200 unpaid working hours (above the standard 2000 hrs) over the course of a year, nor more than 8 extra working hours (above the standard 40 hrs) over the course of a week."
(Or simplify that example to: "we cannot ask more than 2200 working hours per year, nor more than 48 working hours per week")

(Example above is basically +10% in a year, but not more than +20% in a given week.)

Yet another (though less likely) option would be to get them to specify (in writing) that they WILL pay overtime.

 

[Robbabob]

Re: Job offer advise

Only input I can give...... worth .02 US

Sounds like this isn't your first rodeo.... tell them you understand the need for OT and are willing to work 45 hours per 5-day work week. Hours beyond that or any work on the weekends would have to be paid or compensated with time off.

Get everything in writing before making the decision. My current boss agreed to minor things to change and then when I arrived to work the first day, he let me know that the owners wouldn't agree to them. Even a good agreement with someone you trust can go wrong. They may leave and the new boss will only know what is in writing.

The great news is you're currently employed and have the bargaining position. You don't need the new job as much as they want you.

Good luck!

 

[avenger79]

Re: Job offer advise

only other wording would be salary non exempt. that means you get paid overtime. I will warn you though as soon as they figure it out they start trying to find ways to get you salary.
My new mgr just realized I have those words in my deal. He was surprised to say the least.
those terms you describe are pretty much industry standard. if you're salary you are expected to work hours of overtime and smile about it. I doubt they'll remove the wording and even if they do, you will still be listed as salary exempt and still be expected to work extra hours.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Job offer advise

The first thing I would do is ask why the previous employee left. I've asked that question on every interview I've ever been on. Read between the lines of what he tells you. The way an interviewer answers this question can tell you a lot if you listen with your eyes as well as your ears.

Come straight out and ask him how many "extra" hours a week is the average.

 

[Aviator5]

Re: Job offer advise

The first thing I would do is ask why the previous employee left. I've asked that question on every interview I've ever been on. Read between the lines of what he tells you. The way an interviewer answers this question can tell you a lot if you listen with your eyes as well as your ears.

Come straight out and ask him how many "extra" hours a week is the average.

There was no previous employee. It is a new position.

 

[dockwrecker]

Re: Job offer advise

my job is overtime exempt, my typical work week is 55-65 hours. but that's typical for my position and something I accepted at "hello". My checks say 40 hours on them also. But up front, I get very well paid to compensate for my whatever it takes schedule, and a very generous bonus plan at project completion. Takes the sting out of things.

 

[Red_BOFUS]

Re: Job offer advise

My boss used to call that the give and take clause..I gave and the company took.

I left and with in two weeks the wanted me to come back, which I did. We worked out a deal where I will work uncompensated for 5% more than my standard week, meaning I give up to 5% more than I am paid. Past 5% I get paid my salary divided by hours, doubled and paid per hour.

I also gave in and do phone calls from home and email uncompensated until it requires me to spend over an hour on the task.

It has worked well for me, I do a little extra but they also are mindful not to bust the clock or it costs them.

 

[Aviator5]

Re: Job offer advise

my job is overtime exempt, my typical work week is 55-65 hours. but that's typical for my position and something I accepted at "hello". My checks say 40 hours on them also. But up front, I get very well paid to compensate for my whatever it takes schedule, and a very generous bonus plan at project completion. Takes the sting out of things.

Well, the money they offering me is good enough to make an offer attractive to me, but not enough to keep me quiet if there is too much overtime

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Job offer advise

There was no previous employee. It is a new position.

Even better. Gives you a little more control.

 

[boatmanalso]

Re: Job offer advise

Well, the money they offering me is good enough to make an offer attractive to me, but not enough to keep me quiet if there is too much overtime

Is there some sort of a bonus clause or profit sharing if you exceede goal X. Also if it is a new position. If you can do the job in 30 hrs are you going to have your salary reduced?

 

[Aviator5]

Re: Job offer advise

Is there some sort of a bonus clause or profit sharing if you exceede goal X. Also if it is a new position. If you can do the job in 30 hrs are you going to have your salary reduced?

There is a stock option clause. And there is no way I can do my job in 30 hrs.
That is why I'm trying to protect myself. It is an R&D kind of job for the first 2-3 years, well funded though, so there won't be any profit.