Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under power...

[projo198]

Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under power...

The previous owners are family, and they noticed the problem first. It is a Mercruiser I/O V6.

When they bought the boat a few months ago they asked me why it wasn't handling well, and I noticed it didn't have a stablizer at all on the lower. So they had one installed and the boat handles much better, but it still leans to the portside horribly under a load.

I have tried shifting the load/passengers but it doesn't help. Another thing I noticed is that it looks like there is supposed to be a small adjustment fin just above the prop, and there isn't. However I researched and believe this is to adjust if a boat turns one way or the other, and if you leave our hand off the wheel of this boat it just goes straight.

The boat sits level in the water when still. Just leans under power and especially when towing a tube. I tow with the tow attachment located right in the center of the back of the boat. I have also tried different trim levels. Raising the trim by about 25% helps a little but soesn't fix the problem.

Any ideas? I have read about trim tabs, bending the lower fin (don't really wanna do this), etc... Not sure what to try first.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Your problem is likely prop torque. That "adjustment fin" is a trim tab and it should be installed. That might help a little, but probably not 100%. Power trim tabs will do the job - not manual ones. You need to adjust both sides independantly.

That vintage Celebrity is noted for rotten innards. Be sure you check the floor, stringers and engine mounts for rot before you go any further.

 

[Watermann]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Listing while under way but not when sitting. I would agree you need the trim tab on the LU and it also serves as an anode. Are you sure your boat hasn't taken on water below deck? Stopped the water disperses, under power it moves to the stern, possibly mostly settling in on the port side. By a stabilizer I assume you mean one of those hydrofoils that bolts on the AV plate above the prop. Watch the leading side of your prop with that on, sometimes they cause ventilation and will make short work of the prop with what looks like burn marks in the aluminum.

 

[projo198]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Yeah, water in the bilge might be an issue. When we launched it Sunday I asked if he had the drain plug in, he said yeah and that he has never taken it out. WTH?

Took a look at the lower yesterday and there is no trim tab above the prop. When he bought the new stabilizer he said the guy mentioned trim tabs for it as well, but to try it with just the stabilizer first.

All things I need to check, I only had a few seconds last night to snap a pic of the lower while I was dropping my other boat off in storage.

 

[projo198]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Here is what I am working with.

 

[frantically relaxing]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

trim tabs above the prop are typically not used on boats with power steering. All they do is keep the outdrive straight, they're not big enough to affect the boat itself.

And for the most part, an 18' boat won't have enough prop torque to require trim tabs...

Something else is going on, and I'm afraid it may be water hiding under the floor. If there is, because of prop torque, it will naturally migrate to the port side when underway. One way to maybe test this theory is to make a slow right turn at speed, so the boat's leaning to starboard... If there's water hiding and it's free to migrate, then the boat should eventually want to lean harder to starboard. But due to stringers and bulkheads and such, it could be water is trapped on the port side only...? This is of course assuming it IS water. Are there any batteries or other heavy items hiding under a seat or storage space?

 

[projo198]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

trim tabs above the prop are typically not used on boats with power steering. All they do is keep the outdrive straight, they're not big enough to affect the boat itself.

And for the most part, an 18' boat won't have enough prop torque to require trim tabs...

Something else is going on, and I'm afraid it may be water hiding under the floor. If there is, because of prop torque, it will naturally migrate to the port side when underway. One way to maybe test this theory is to make a slow right turn at speed, so the boat's leaning to starboard... If there's water hiding and it's free to migrate, then the boat should eventually want to lean harder to starboard. But due to stringers and bulkheads and such, it could be water is trapped on the port side only...? This is of course assuming it IS water. Are there any batteries or other heavy items hiding under a seat or storage space?

To be honest I will have to look. Sunday was my first time launching the boat as the owner, and I picked it up from them that day. Then when leaving the lake their kid got bit by a wasp and we had to run to the ER, so I didn't get a chance to really check the boat out.

The water thing sounds like it could be an issue as he told me he has NEVER drained the bilge, and they have had it out several times this summer. He said he just runs the bilge pump every time, but that doesn't get ALL the water out.

 

[Celtichawk]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Wow who doesn't drain bilge? That's one thing I always do and it's kind of a no brainer since you pull bilge plug at the ramp which makes it easier since boat is leaning back allowing water to drain. How dumb unless he is confident his boat has never taken on any water.

 

[jayhanig]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

It must never rain in Kansas.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Not sure if it was the picture or if your prop is bent, that might be causing some of this too if it is bent, it kinda did look that way in some of the pictures.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Wow who doesn't drain bilge? That's one thing I always do and it's kind of a no brainer since you pull bilge plug at the ramp which makes it easier since boat is leaning back allowing water to drain. How dumb unless he is confident his boat has never taken on any water.

I haven't pulled my transom plug since the day I brought it home from the dealer 29 years ago. The idiot left it uncovered in the rain for a day until he brought it inside to rig it and have the canvas guy make the mooring cover. The few times I got stuck in a thunderstorm, the little bit that leaked thru the canvas was easily taken care of by the bilge pump, and the last quart or so was mopped up with a sponge right after the rain stopped.

If your boat needs to have the plug pulled to drain water, then you better find the leak. That's why decks and stringers rot.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Why drain the bilge if there is nothing ever in it? A self bailing hull in a well made boat should not have water in the bilge! The only time my bilge pump comes on is when I pour a 5 gallon bucket in the bilge every month to test it. Sponge the residue and she is dry until the next test.

Wow who doesn't drain bilge? That's one thing I always do and it's kind of a no brainer since you pull bilge plug at the ramp which makes it easier since boat is leaning back allowing water to drain. How dumb unless he is confident his boat has never taken on any water.

 

[andrew91]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

I always pull my plug on my 89 my floor is starting to rott up in the bow just under the seat on the driver side but it is solid the rest of the way around mine every once in awhile will lean one way or the other but its usually due to some fat guy plus i have a 355 chevy so i bet i get some prop torque it straightens out after while i do need to install my new trim tab but for the most part even with my batteries on one side and passengers distributed unevenly my celebrity handles like a dream and normally is stable mine is a 21'er though...

Question though is the hook in the middle on yours at all loose i cant pull mine out or anything it just feels a little loose to me i havent hooked a tube up there because

 

[slag]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

I haven't pulled my transom plug since the day I brought it home from the dealer 29 years ago. The idiot left it uncovered in the rain for a day until he brought it inside to rig it and have the canvas guy make the mooring cover. The few times I got stuck in a thunderstorm, the little bit that leaked thru the canvas was easily taken care of by the bilge pump, and the last quart or so was mopped up with a sponge right after the rain stopped.

If your boat needs to have the plug pulled to drain water, then you better find the leak. That's why decks and stringers rot.

Seriously?

When I go boating with the family and we swim in the lake all day long, there is a lot of water in the bilge from getting in and out of the boat. The bilge pump doesn't take it all out, just most of it, but there is always water in the bilge. Pull the plug, there's a reason it's there. Stringers and decks rot because people don't get the water out, aka, pull the plug.

 

[Celtichawk]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

My experiences are due to Ocean sailing and with the massive swells I tend to get stuck in the boat takes in water spray. Eventually that runs to the bilge so after I pull my boat out of the water at the dock I prefer to take the extra thirty seconds and remove the bilge plug so if any water were to enter it will drain. Sorry from my last comment as I was basing my thoughts on my own experiences as if everyone does the same.

Boats are meant to get wet, I will also ask what about those days you wash the inside of your boat no chance water gets in? I'm impressed that a boat 29 years old doesn't take on water and suppose it was well taken care if and never left outside.

I'm also used to owning used boats that I can see people don't take care of. With that being said I prefer to drain the bilge in the event water, even the littlest bit, will drain before it causes worse problems.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Petty officer first Class;

What you have is very likely a torque list that is caused buy a Hydrofoil (planning devise) installation mounted to cavitation plate (flange above the prop) I am not referring to the Trim fin used to compensate for torque steer (left to right).

It appears from the pictures that you have a Hydrofoil installed.

The listing issue is very common on Deep V boats when Hydrofoils are used.

The second clue to this is that your listing problem is reduced when you trim up. This allows the boat to ride farther back on the hull where the "V" is less. When the bow is pushed down too much the boat rides on the sharpest part of the "V" hull and makes it more suseptable to listing (like a teeter totter).

By the way, you should be able to trim the out-drive to a point just before the prop begins to ventilate which will put the prop angle at right angles to the water. Trimming down when cruising (usually to reduce porpoising) helps lift the stern while putting bow down pressure to reduce porpoising, however this tilts the prop which reduces efficiency (speed and fuel).

I would also suspect that the boat leans hard in turns, especially to the port side (left).

Although the hydrofoil will assist the boat to plain easier since it is adding to the running surface of the boat, it is also lifting the boat from the center of the "V". This lift increases as the speed increases creating what I refer to as the Teeter Totter effect. For example, try to balance a pencil on your finger. It makes the torque of the prop more pronounced.

Remove the hydrofoil if you have not already done so.

To solve the porpoising issue, and planning problems, install Trim Tabs.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Seriously?

When I go boating with the family and we swim in the lake all day long, there is a lot of water in the bilge from getting in and out of the boat. The bilge pump doesn't take it all out, just most of it, but there is always water in the bilge. Pull the plug, there's a reason it's there. Stringers and decks rot because people don't get the water out, aka, pull the plug.

It has a lot to do with how a boat is used. When we swim off the sandbar we're usually on and off of the beach, not in and out of the boat. When we get back in there is always a towel on the floor to soak up the water. What little water ends up in the bilge is evaporated by the heat of the engine on the way home.

When we get back to the launch ramp, a quick flip up of the motor hatch shows me the same thing every time - not a drop in the bilge. So, why take out the plug when you know there's no water in there?

My deck is nautolex and merely needs a brush or vacuum to clean it. Any worm goop is picked up with a damp rag dipped over the side.

 

[projo198]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Petty officer first Class;

What you have is very likely a torque list that is caused buy a Hydrofoil (planning devise) installation mounted to cavitation plate (flange above the prop) I am not referring to the Trim fin used to compensate for torque steer (left to right).

It appears from the pictures that you have a Hydrofoil installed.

The listing issue is very common on Deep V boats when Hydrofoils are used.

The second clue to this is that your listing problem is reduced when you trim up. This allows the boat to ride farther back on the hull where the "V" is less. When the bow is pushed down too much the boat rides on the sharpest part of the "V" hull and makes it more suseptable to listing (like a teeter totter).

By the way, you should be able to trim the out-drive to a point just before the prop begins to ventilate which will put the prop angle at right angles to the water. Trimming down when cruising (usually to reduce porpoising) helps lift the stern while putting bow down pressure to reduce porpoising, however this tilts the prop which reduces efficiency (speed and fuel).

I would also suspect that the boat leans hard in turns, especially to the port side (left).

Although the hydrofoil will assist the boat to plain easier since it is adding to the running surface of the boat, it is also lifting the boat from the center of the "V". This lift increases as the speed increases creating what I refer to as the Teeter Totter effect. For example, try to balance a pencil on your finger. It makes the torque of the prop more pronounced.

Remove the hydrofoil if you have not already done so.

To solve the porpoising issue, and planning problems, install Trim Tabs.

Thank you, this sounds like very sound advise.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I was under the assumption that trim tabs are installed TO the hydrofoil. Can you tell me where these go?

Also; I pulled my drain plug yesterday, less than a cupful of water drained out so I guess teh bilge pump is well situated and doing a good job. On my other boat it sits quite forward and a little high on the hull and didn't get all the water out, so I customized a bracket to make it sit all the way down into the V.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Trim Tabs are similar to flaps on an airplane. They become an extension of the hull running surface, and because they adjust up and down the hull design changes. In the deployed (down) position they create stern lift which keeps the boat from the standard bow up position during acceleration to plane. When at cruising speed the tabs rotate up to a level position and either adjust themselves (Smart Tabs and Bennett SLT series or can be adjusted from the helm. We (Start Tabs) have targeted the smaller sport boat market for the past 14 years, and have had significant experience. Although we feel we have the best product in this category for smaller boats (under 26 feet) my guess is your problems are better solved with trim tabs of any kind.

Check this link Smart Tabs SX Trim Tabs

 

[Tabman]

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Re: Just bought an 88' Celebrity Calais 18" and she leans to port side bad under powe

Thank you, this sounds like very sound advise.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I was under the assumption that trim tabs are installed TO the hydrofoil. Can you tell me where these go?

Also; I pulled my drain plug yesterday, less than a cupful of water drained out so I guess teh bilge pump is well situated and doing a good job. On my other boat it sits quite forward and a little high on the hull and didn't get all the water out, so I customized a bracket to make it sit all the way down into the V.

Here is an idea of where Trim Tabs mount, these are Bennett SLTs:

If possible they should be mounted a bit further outboard (that was not possible on this boat).